|10-05-2012, 09:15 AM||#1|
ride the night
Tubliss Long Term Review
After having Nuetech Tubliss for a year I can provide my experience with the setup.
Basically, Tubliss replaces your regular 21", 19", or 18" inner tube with a red beadlock liner and high pressure miniature inner tube. This combo creates an air chamber that is separated from the wheel by the red liner. It also creates a 360 degree beadlock that clamps the sidewalls of the tire to the rim. Also, the high pressure inner tube and stiff red beadlock liner create a sort of buffer or bump stop at 100psi that buffers impacts against the rim.
Overall my rating of Tubliss is 9.7/10.
During this year I have tried in every way to cause my Tubliss to fail while riding. I have found the faults that people have complained about and found the reasons and points for failure. If installed correctly, I was not able to cause a Tubliss unit to fail, even after riding 50+mi on a flat Michelin Trial X Light tire as well as a flat front Dunlop MX51 intermediate tire.
Installation - the most critical element to making Tubliss work right
Once the installation process is learned the reliability of Tubliss is shown. Take the time for the first installation and tire change to make sure that you follow the instructions on the video on nuetech.com.
When installing Tubliss or even changing tires, it is absolutely critical that you do not nick or hook the red inner liner. I am 100% positive that this is the main cause for failure when people have problems with Tubliss. Also, there are two versions to the liner.. the older version is much thinner and easier to damage. The newer version (replaced the older version last winter) is at least 2X more durable than the old liner. You will know if you have a new liner if the underside is orange vs black.
Once the installation process is learned it is a breeze to change tires and even liners. It took me two tire changes to get the process down pat. I don't even plan on going back to tubes now.
Top - Old liner (black)
Bottom - New liner (orange)
This damage to the old style liner is from only one tire change. This was from hooking the liner with my spoons while spooning off the old tire. I did not know that I was doing damage until I pulled the tire off a month later. These frayed ends rub the inner tube and will eventually cause it to fail catastrophically.
Pushing my hand down firmly on the newer style liner
Same pressure on the old style liner
When installing I use SLIME as a lubricant and tire sealant. Some will complain that it is messy... I find that a bit strange as these are for dirt bikes. I found that when I run slime in the tire and the high pressure tube I do not need to check the tires for at least month. Without slime, the tires leak 5-10psi a week. Also, the slime acts as a lubricant.
This is an example of running a Dunlop D952 completely flat for 35mi of singletrack WITHOUT any slime in the tire to lubricate or cool it. I could have cooked eggs off the tire when I was done riding.
The same liner survived 50mi of singletrack a week earlier underneath that Michelin Trial X Light without any damage of any kind, because I had slime in the tire.
This is the terrain. Rocks.
I found that even flat, the Tubliss protected my rims completely against damage from the high pressure tube soaking the impact of rocks and roots, even riding as hard as I would normally inflated. Normally running very low pressures in rocky areas was not possible without numerous pinch flats and bent rims from slamming rocks. Now I can run very low pressures for very good traction.
This is a trials bike play area on the side of a mountain in the Cascades. Running 4psi F/R. When I had tubes I was running +10psi. The traction difference is incredible.
I also found the best (so far) set of tires to run.
Dunlop D908 Rally Raid front 90/90X21
Dunlop D739 Desert rear 120/100X18 (or Maxxis Desert IT)
Dunlop left, Maxxis right
I found that running the desert tires at 0-1psi I had 90% of the traction in a straight line as a sticky Michelin trials tire, and 200% the traction of a trials tire in the corners when the trials tire was run at 4-5psi. Also, sidewall punctures are almost a thing of the past with their extremely thick sidewalls. I would normally puncture a trials tire sidewall well before it was worn out, rendering it useless.
In contrast, when I had tubes I was running 8-10psi on regular tires and the traction was much less than at 0-1psi on a mud/desert tire. Also, when running rocks and roots, the lower pressure tracked much better and was overall more of a smooth flow. Instead of deflecting off everything and bouncing, the tires gripped rocks and just absorbed impacts.
The D908 RR front has the thickest carcass of any front I have tried yet. It is just burly. It can handle 0psi for a great deal of time. It also has a very similar tread pattern to the D739 front. No chunking yet.
If you ever want to put to test how much PSI affects tire performance try it in the snow. I ride a lot of snow and learned very quickly that 0PSI will get you quite far in the white stuff. That is not possible with tubes, however.
Here is a video of riding some snow at ~1psi
After having Tubliss for over 100hrs on two different bikes I can say that it is a defininite advantage over tubes in three major ways-
- Run Flat
I can run tires completely flat, or fix them easily with tire rope / plugs in less than five minutes. The inner liner acts as a double 360deg beadlock that clamps the tire on the wheel.
Lower pressure for trials tire like grip and tracking without damaging rims or pinch flats.
- Rim Protection
I have had to stop a few times because I thought I had smashed my rims to obvlivion.. only to find perfectly straight and true rims and wheels, because of the 100psi inner liner that protects the rims and locks the tire
- Installation / tire changes -
when you change your tires or install/remove Tubliss you need to be careful. Tire changes actually take me less time than with tubes now that I have the procedure down, but there was a bit of a learning step. I took some of the lip off my tire irons so that they don't hook the liner as easy. Worked rather well. Watch the videos on the Tubliss website a few times for good help
Aside: when I first nicked my old black liner I emailed Jeff at Nuetech on a replacement unit. I ordered a replacement liner and he included a spare high pressure tube for free. I later emailed him a video I took running flat tires with his setup. He sent me a set of tires for me to trial and put to the test with Tubliss (Dunlop D908 & D739.) I am going to be punishing the tires at various pressures and speeds over their lifetime. I will take some videos and post them up in a few months with results.
n16ht5 screwed with this post 10-07-2012 at 06:53 PM
|10-07-2012, 07:51 AM||#2|
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: morgantown, wv
great writeup. i have found exactly the same as you on all points.
i run mx31 front and rear at 6psi or below. rocky/muddy conditions 90% of the time. the traction difference is stellar, and i get the advantages of a trials tire, without the rolling over/strange turning the trials tires have.
the only disadvantage i have found is if the tires chunk - just at base of knobs - the fronts chunk easier for me due to low pressure/hard compound tire. , there is a chance of a flat, even though the tire is not worn out. slime leaked out of knob bases - when i switched to quadboss dirtbike tire sealant, this problem went away. i do not chunk rear tires ever, don't know why.
i have run for well over an hour at race pace with a flat tire, and no damage to rims. the inner REALLY protects the rim. i'm running the tubliss on several bikes, and have 100's of hours on them. i hate changing tube tires now, the tubliss system is so much easier and faster. also, tubliss customer service is second to none. as for tire changes, i've stopped using my regular irons, and just use the titanium motion pro one a friend gave me (i thought they were ridiculous till i used one..) - the titanium has no 'sticky' feel on the rim or the tubliss, so it slides around and works significantly better.
07 gasgas xc300-94 duc 900ss-86 morini camel (2)-84 IT200-83 IT175-78 guzzi lm1-77 pursang 250-76 morini 3 1/2 strada-76 frankentaco pursang 200-74 frankentaco pursang 200-74 morini 3 1/2 sport-74 mz ts250/0-74 puch 175 (3)-73 can-am 175tnt-71 guzzi frankeneldo-71 ossa Stiletto-70 frankentaco sherpa s(2)-66 morini corsarino(2)-63 morini corsaro + many more
|02-02-2013, 01:29 PM||#4|
Joined: Jul 2011
Location: Ticino, Switzerland
Amazing write up, contributions like that really make ADV the great source of information that it is today. Thanks for your effort!
|02-25-2013, 08:38 AM||#5|
Joined: Oct 2007
I received my tubliss stuff last week and will mount this week. In the instructions/info sheet it states a lifetime for the bladder of 12 months or 100 hours. I hadn't seen this before. I assume this is more a precautionary statement (like the "not for highway use"). Are you tubliss users exceeding these usage "limits"?
|02-26-2013, 04:05 PM||#6|
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Albany, Western Australia
Great review, great product
I have used Tubliss for 2 1/2 years and 45000 km of ADV riding on my DRZ carrying fuel loads of 55L and 20L water for multi day desert rides with zero problems.
Canning Stock Route 2012 - (Hillbillys pic)
The conditions that I ride in are mainly sandy and the ability to run at low pressures makes all the difference in traction and being able to travel in sand with less effort.
Cheer guys, dont worry, I drive all my mates crazy singing the praises of this system, especially if they are complaining about riding in sand.
|02-26-2013, 04:33 PM||#7|
One Happy Dog
Joined: May 2008
Location: Griffonderosa Dog Ranch
Thanks for the info!
Make sure you FF's look at OP's "Chronicles Of Gnarnia" in his sig. Epic!
|02-26-2013, 08:53 PM||#8|
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Albany Western Australia
Nice picture Dennis
That picture makes a compelling argument for Tubliss Den. Have you seen my thread on Tubliss on the Oz forum?
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