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Old 02-16-2013, 10:46 AM   #16
H96669
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I have one ,or more, of them plugs on my bench. At first your post made me interested in duplicating the failure mode....plug in the vise and then a big wrench just to see how much force that would take.

I'll go give that a try and then see how much force you could apply with a screwdriver at the electrodes to turn it out. Not much I'd think before they bend or break.

Got one of them nifty little tools to magnetize screwdriver tips? I sure use mine quite often to bring stuff in and out and in case things break.

Click torque wrenches...not always the best.You just can't get a reading that you are approaching torque. Tought I was going to break a bolt last week and then it did click.Ouf...! Switched to the beam wrench for the other ones.

Will be back after some destructive tests....!
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:57 AM   #17
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Look up Ford Triton spark plugs. They have a big problem with the plugs breaking off in the head. You will wind a lot of advice on removal.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:28 AM   #18
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Took 55-60 ft/lb to do that, according to the beam torque wrench:







And then the screwdriver, should have tried from the other end but sure that I'd get the same results.





Took only a few ft/lb, probably no more than 4-5 to twist the tips and then you can forget that method.They are really soft.



In some way you are pretty lucky that the tip/porcelain came out with the rest of the plug. Had to punch some of that out of a plug a while back to make a compression gauge adaptor and it sure did not come out easy.

Good luck!
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:09 PM   #19
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Heh, thanks for the original research :). I don't know how I managed to put 3x the recommended torque on the plug (or else something was wrong with the plug - I'll pretend not to know which is more likely :)).

In any case, I can affirm your conclusion about the tips. They are indeed very soft. Two turns of the screwdriver (not nearly enough to make a difference) and they're gone, partly broken and partly bent out of reach.

I bought the extractor thing also while I was at the hardware store just now (it was only a couple bucks anyway) but I'm scared of using it: if I do it wrong, there'll be nothing left for the next guy to work on it. Might call the dealership to come pick up the bike. I'm mulling it over now.


Thanks again everyone for the comments. There's some suggestions I haven't replied to, like using magnetic mechanisms or how hand pressure should be enough to remove it, but I don't see how to apply that. It's a small opening with nothing to hold onto ...
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
IMHO, first put the piston at TDC, then work out the issue. Make sure your tool doesn't go in too deep. Anyhow, once out, use a vacuum on the hole to pull out any debris.

Jim
TDC??? Top dead center could put the extractor tip onto the top of the piston especially if he bought one a bit small. I would recommend moving the piston away from TDC if putting an extractor into the hole.
But i have to agree a pro would probably have it out in a few minutes and less risk to the machine.
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:32 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by damurph View Post
TDC??? Top dead center could put the extractor tip onto the top of the piston especially if he bought one a bit small. I would recommend moving the piston away from TDC if putting an extractor into the hole.
But i have to agree a pro would probably have it out in a few minutes and less risk to the machine.
Hi, thanks for your comments. The problem is getting the machine to a pro - that's what makes the whole thing costly.
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:34 PM   #22
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I definitely learned something following this thread. I won't be buying a Ford Triton powered vehicle.
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:58 PM   #23
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Taking it in.
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:11 PM   #24
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Yes I'd mull for a while and probably do it but I am a very long way from a dealer.I have some very small needle nose pliers, they'd probably be small enough to grab the tips first and pull them out. A couple good rare earth magnets on the pliers does magnetize then.

Spray some stuff upward and let drip down to lube. Maybe the can of freeze stuff/bubble gum remover to shrink the steel.

Extractors, just looked at mine, all new after many years of sitting there just in case.They are of the fluted type and there is one just large enough to grab 1/4" or so....could be enough and then it would avoid a smaller one farther into the cylinder.

Tap it in there with the very small hammer and then some torque altough I'd have to trust my wrist for what the torque should be.

If that doesn't work there is always Plan B....whatever that would be but still way better than breaking something.

I'd be also weary of anything in the threads binding. Had enough problems with a plug back then that stripped the threads when removing it. Just from the hard carbon build ups at the tip.

There....just tried it for you. No 6 extractor only goes down 1/4" or so and I can still put about 20 ft/lb of torque on the tool before it slips a little. Should be sufficient to get that out of there and no way I'd break that extractor in there.

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Old 02-16-2013, 02:19 PM   #25
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By hand pressure I mean it should not be tight in the threads. The part that was making it tight has broken off and now it should be easily removed. Like removing a bolt or screw once it has been loosened by a tool. More than likely you didnt miss the mark on your torque wrench and mess up the threads. Very common defect with a spark plug. I probably change 60 plugs a week for 6 months out of the year and I see it about once a month. H96669 just posted the same ez out I have but I dont use the T handle. I have a nut driver that fits the end that I find is easier to keep constant pressure on and again doesnt require much torque to remove.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:32 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by acejones View Post
I definitely learned something following this thread. I won't be buying a Ford Triton powered vehicle.
I think they improved them after 2008.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:37 PM   #27
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In had the same thing happen to my Vstrom last year. I think is was a defective plug because I really didn't put a whole lot of torque on it. I always use a stubby ratchet just to make sure I can't wring something off.

I went to sears and picked up a square style extractor...



... Like this. Just lightly tapped in into place with a small hammer and it didn't take hardly and torque to remove the stuck bit of plug. There's nothing for the remaining bit of plug to be torqued against so it should come right out unless the threads are boogered.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:36 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damurph View Post
TDC??? Top dead center could put the extractor tip onto the top of the piston especially if he bought one a bit small. I would recommend moving the piston away from TDC if putting an extractor into the hole.
But i have to agree a pro would probably have it out in a few minutes and less risk to the machine.
The bottom of the plug was still in it. Reread what I wrote.

Jim
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:59 PM   #29
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Hello kevinj

Been putting in and taking out plugs for 45 yrs of riding, racing and never snapped one.
Till recently. In and out on dr350 to check reading, to lean, snapped it off flush at head taking it OUT!!
Friends saying easy out, not. "Pull the head, you've done that plenty and dr350 is easy- peasy"
Confidence shot. Neighbor, mechanic, charged $100.00 to pull head off and re install every thing.
Q and E in Anaheim Ca in business since 1965 said not stripped, just to tight. $50.00 to drill out and put in time-sert.
$150.00 later bike runs perfect, rode it today.
Figured if I can't put in a plug right, I shouldn't be messing around with cams, cam chains and stuff like that no matter what I did in the past.
Your plug was nothing like mine, but your GS is like a super computer compared to my dr and if you
F it up, well super computers are expensive to fix.
Good decision.

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Old 02-17-2013, 02:28 AM   #30
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Hi everyone,

there's been some interesting discussion on the thread, and I'm still amazed to be offered so much help. Many thanks to everyone on this thread.

I bought the extractor thing; it was $3 or $4, almost nothing. But in the end I decided to have the dealer take care of it anyway. From what most of you describe on this thread, it's unnecessarily cautious. It was fairly expensive (less so if I succeed to bill my insurance for the tow as "roadside assistance" - don't know if they'll bite). But the bike is alive again after just a few hours.

Another reminder for me to take it slow and be very careful in the future. I'd expected that this whole home mechanic business would be fairly easy once I had the right tools and watched the instructional DVDs. Turns out it's harder to learn than I thought. It's frustrating and discouraging at times like today. I hope the investment of time and money will pay off eventually.


Goodnight everyone, and enjoy the long weekend,



Kevin
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