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Old 02-26-2013, 11:54 PM   #76
klavdy
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Originally Posted by Thanantos View Post
I agree that it happens. There are lots of stories, youtube videos, etc. as evidence of that.

So we shouldn't just give up on what is behind us. My argument is that what is in front of us is what is killing and/or seriously injuring us at a far greater rate. There is MUCH more evidence of that.
There's not much lane splitting in Michigan, is there?
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:17 AM   #77
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There's not much lane splitting in Michigan, is there?
No, sadly pretty much 0. In fact if you tried that here some redneck in a 3/4 ton diesel would probably try to run you over just for spite.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:58 AM   #78
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Completely agree. Deer are like motorcycle snipers.

That's why all this chest beating about how I can control my surroundings through assertive riding kind of drives me nuts.

There will sometimes be things you can't control or avoid. Going faster doesn't change that. It just makes it hurt worse when you hit it.
This is my world, and I have a very hard time relating to many of these posts even though I understand that where you live the terrain and threats are very different. When I read about people doing 100+, or 95, or 80, or even 75, on "wide open roads with good sight distance," I just picture all of the times that an obstacle suddenly appears in my path almost every time I ride.

Around here, deer, elk, bighorn sheep, antelope, farm dogs, and last fall I came very close to hitting a golden eagle at speed, regularly shoot out of a tiny patch of brush or tall grass that looks too short to cover them. Even when I'm not dealing with blind curves with very large drop offs, or escaped boulders trying to migrate across the road, it is a rare section of road that would ever feel safe to me at those kinds of speeds.

I hear cage driver lament all the time about the fact that they couldn't possibly avoid a collision with a deer. While I know just how sneaky they can be, by vigilance and reducing speed I have managed to avoid ever hitting one in 40 years of driving.

So, all that means is that the concept of appropriate speed for conditions is the most important issue. Conditions must include unseen and unpredictable hazards in places that have few side roads and intersections. Being aware of what local hazards exist, that may not exist where you normally ride, is essential. Personally, if I never drive again in LA, it will be far too soon, and I will take my chances with wildlife any day over riding in any large city.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:59 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Thanantos View Post
No, sadly pretty much 0. In fact if you tried that here some redneck in a 3/4 ton diesel would probably try to run you over just for spite.
There's at least one on this site!

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Originally Posted by das Rider
Lane sharing is a safety issue my ass. It is the most dangerous thing imaginable on a motorcycle. Happily I've never seen it and hope I never do. I guess I'm a motorcycle owning and riding jackhole because I wouldn't allow anyone to pass me in my lane. Don't even try, you won't like the results and I never saw you. I don't want you or your bike that close to my vehicle. You endanger everyone's lives with this stupid practice.

Try to squeeze between two cars 4 feet apart at 70 mph and tell me again how you are safer than having the whole lane to yourself. You are nuts and playing with my safety. Get sandwiched between two cars, go down right in front of another car, get crushed and ground into hamburger. Then have your estate pay for the damage you caused.

Yeah, I hate lane sharing.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:31 AM   #80
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I'm guessing the original post by "das Rider" has been deleted or something; I can't seem to find it.

Yeah he's the typical type that we have to face. BUT, fortunately, at least in California, there are laws on the books for just that situation. I think the same laws would be mandatory in any other state that adopts the practice. One says, "no vehicle will impeded a motorcycle attempting to pass," and the other specifically addresses road rage against motorcycles. So he can run somebody over if he wants, but I guarantee he will be found at fault. There's no excuse to not see a motorcycle passing you. That's what your side mirrors are for. Anybody in a car should be scanning all their mirrors regularly and should see the bikes coming before they ever get there. Trying to claim ignorance isn't gonna fly.

The lane isn't "his" anyway.. it's a public roadway, so the lanes belong to everybody. If the law allows the lanes to be shared, then they're going to be shared. Rather than raise his own flood pressure and be all pissed off, the right thing to do would be to just make room for the bike to pass and get on with your day. That's how motorists in California do it. Most of them see you coming and move over. I've even had (many times) stopped vehicles at traffic lights do their best to move for me when they see I'm stuck and can't get by. I'm always thankful and give a friendly wave or nod of thanks.

I don't understand why people have to have such a bad attitude about stuff. Live and let live.

Edit: There were a couple of road rage instances against motorcyclists trying to lane split in California a few years ago... in both cases, the motorists perpetrating the incident are now in jail.

If/when they legalize it here in Oregon, I will be running front- and rear-facing cameras to catch people if they try anything.

Rob
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:37 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Luckily we have that right. And for all I know about your constitution you have that right as well.
We have the right to travel without restriction.

Using a public road is the same as using a park, library, bus, or any other public asset.

We can't chop down trees, pick flowers, or dump garbage in a park.
We can't take a book from a library without returning it, tear out pages, or color in a book.
We can't ride a bus without paying, or move furniture in it.

We as individuals have the right to use them. We as individuals don't have the right to pick and chose what rules regarding their use we will obey, misuse or abuse them.

I don't agree with all laws, and if enough people agree they can be changed, there is a process for that. The roads belong to everyone who pays taxes, and they all get a say, were not going to get what we want all the time.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:50 AM   #82
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I think these claims are mostly from riders who are used to riding in urban areas where it's more like a warzone.... and to keep moving is to stay alive.
It's not necessarily controlling the surroundings as it's an attempt to initiate movement rather than having it initiated upon yourself..
I live, and work as a city P&D driver on the road 9+ hours a day in the Seattle metropolitan area.

All things being equal, I can be just as safe at 10 under as I can at 10 over.

IMO, anybody who needs to go faster or slower than traffic to be safe has an issue with their technical riding/driving skills, awareness, or judgment.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:53 AM   #83
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IMO, anybody who needs to go faster or slower than traffic to be safe has an issue with their technical riding/driving skills, awareness, or judgment.
Can't say I agree with this. I find I'm safer moving 10-15 mph faster than traffic. When I'm traveling WITH traffic, people don't see me, or forget I'm there, and will invariably merge into my lane or do other stupid/dangerous things around me. It's better to just get past them. This has nothing to do with a rider's skill or judgement, but is going to have more to do with the awareness of the motorists in a given area.

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Old 02-27-2013, 08:58 AM   #84
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I'm guessing the original post by "das Rider" has been deleted or something; I can't seem to find it.
Nope.

Read all the fun here - http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95097
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
MX stuff isn't my cup of tea, but falling down the side of a mountain is
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:00 AM   #85
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IMO, anybody who needs to go faster or slower than traffic to be safe has an issue with their technical riding/driving skills, awareness, or judgment.
if I didnt get rear-ended by farm equipment in Hollywood so often, I might agree with you.

I think the bottom line is that you have to blend to your surroundings. I ride differently in Los Angeles than I did when I rode in Seattle and I rode WAY differently in Saigon.
None of the styles are safely transferable.
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Quote:
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Quote:
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MX stuff isn't my cup of tea, but falling down the side of a mountain is

eatpasta screwed with this post 02-27-2013 at 09:08 AM
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:39 AM   #86
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Can't say I agree with this. I find I'm safer moving 10-15 mph faster than traffic. When I'm traveling WITH traffic, people don't see me, or forget I'm there, and will invariably merge into my lane or do other stupid/dangerous things around me. It's better to just get past them. This has nothing to do with a rider's skill or judgement, but is going to have more to do with the awareness of the motorists in a given area.

Rob
I agree being stationary in traffic is not the best option. Going 15 mph over the speed of traffic to accomplish that? I have a real hard time buying that.
IMO, If its possible to be going 15 over the speed of traffic, being stationary in a bad position isnt an issue in the first place.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:26 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
We have the right to travel without restriction.

Using a public road is the same as using a park, library, bus, or any other public asset.

We can't chop down trees, pick flowers, or dump garbage in a park.
We can't take a book from a library without returning it, tear out pages, or color in a book.
We can't ride a bus without paying, or move furniture in it.

We as individuals have the right to use them. We as individuals don't have the right to pick and chose what rules regarding their use we will obey, misuse or abuse them.

I don't agree with all laws, and if enough people agree they can be changed, there is a process for that. The roads belong to everyone who pays taxes, and they all get a say, were not going to get what we want all the time.
And in what way is all of that related to our right to ride motorcycles?
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:40 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
Can't say I agree with this. I find I'm safer moving 10-15 mph faster than traffic. When I'm traveling WITH traffic, people don't see me, or forget I'm there, and will invariably merge into my lane or do other stupid/dangerous things around me. It's better to just get past them. This has nothing to do with a rider's skill or judgement, but is going to have more to do with the awareness of the motorists in a given area.

Rob
I agree, except that 10-15 over is not the optimum for safety; I'd say more like 5 mph over ambient traffic is safest on a bike, and equal to ambient traffic is safest in a car.

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Old 02-27-2013, 12:48 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by eatpasta View Post

I remember that thread. Good old das Rider. His views aint too popular. Wonder how he's doing? Hope he hasn't run over any lane sharing motorcyclists since we last heard from him. BTW, I'm still in CA, and I'm still lane sharing on a regular basis.
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:43 PM   #90
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And in what way is all of that related to our right to ride motorcycles?
We are free to ride anything we want, in any way we want........on private property.

The right to do it on a public road is with the stipulation that we follow certain rules and meet certain conditions.
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