ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > The Garage
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-26-2013, 04:45 AM   #16
Lafitte
on the lake
 
Lafitte's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Lake Palestine Texas
Oddometer: 437
kerdi

After Hurricane Ike in 2008 , I built this shower using the Kerdi system.
Sold house in 2012. In that time there were no leaks and NO MOLD in grout lines. It wasn't that expensive initially and I would use it again.

__________________
I always keep a supply of stimulant handy in case I see a snake----which I also keep handy.
Lafitte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 08:06 AM   #17
One Less Harley
OH.THAT'S GONNA HURT
 
One Less Harley's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Bowling Green, Ky
Oddometer: 4,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus View Post
BULLSHIT. You don't know what you are talking about.

I have been a tile setter for nearly 40 years. A properly done mortar bed shower will last the rest of your life. I have seen showers that were 80 years old with no problems.

All of these other "systems" that i have seen are designed so that someone who doesn't know what they are doing can build a shower.

The Kerdi system shower floor costs more, takes longer and is of a lower quality than mud set tile.

Kerdi is for goobers who don't know how to properly build a shower. Unfortunately that describes most of the "tile setters" nowadays.
OK Rufus and I are the only "tile setters" here posting and he is absolutely right.

Cracks in the motor bed don't cause leaks!!!!! Your statement of a cracked motor bead being the cause of the leak is not what causes the leak. A pvc pan will not crack or tear (unless movement is very excessive like inches) ,nothing personal here just the plain truth. I suspect if the pan leaks then it's tar paper or lead.

There's more to tile work than just slapping the stuff on the walls. Something to consider- For the cost of the Kerdi system and materials one might find that getting a tile setter to do the job might not be that much more money, and worth the difference. If you consider if you screw up and have a disaster, worst case or just have a rough job with staggered joints, thinset oozing through the joints, toe holds on the walls and no trim pieces to finish edges....the list goes on.

Of course there are some people who are capable of doing a pretty decent job and hopefully the OP has the skills. In my case kerdi just takes money out of my hands to sell a product. Is it any better? I don't thinks so. It takes me 3-4 days to do a shower ( not 8 hr days though), many do it your selfers will take 1-2 weeks for a basic shower. Another consideration is what's your time worth.
__________________
2004 BMW R1150RS
1984 BMW R80G/S
(wrenching index)
2003 Suzuki DRZ 400S (TAT Prep)
One More DRZ does the TAT (Ride Report)


One Less Harley screwed with this post 02-26-2013 at 08:28 AM
One Less Harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 10:07 AM   #18
Joetool
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Location: Above Boulder, near Ned
Oddometer: 150
I guess putting tile in for the last 16 years doesn't qualify me as a "tilesetter". I should call Morton's and tell them the 2000 square feet of tile I had to demo and replace in 5 days was done by an amateur...

When I get 4 more years experience is there a club I apply to to become a real tilesetter; do I get a card
Joetool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 01:56 PM   #19
cgk64
Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2012
Oddometer: 33
pan

I would only use 40 mil pasco pan liner, if done right it will not leak. Never tried kerdi looks scarey to me.Been doing tile for 25 years.
cgk64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 02:11 PM   #20
rapidoxidationman
Easily trainable
 
rapidoxidationman's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: The Teton Rockies
Oddometer: 8,082
There's more than one way to skin a cat, tile a shower, or plumb a house. Back in the '90's, grey poly pipe was the cure-all end-all to any plumbing problem... 'til they found out it leaked... I prefer copper. Pex is easy, but sloppy.

There's nothing wrong with proven technology.
There MIGHT be something wrong with the latest/greatest.

If I had to start building a tile shower for myself tomorrow, guess how I'd do it?
__________________
Quote:
I know I'm feeling badly when I have no interest in speeding
Patrick
rapidoxidationman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 03:42 PM   #21
troidus
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Oddometer: 11,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapidoxidationman View Post
There's more than one way to skin a cat, tile a shower, or plumb a house. Back in the '90's, grey poly pipe was the cure-all end-all to any plumbing problem... 'til they found out it leaked... I prefer copper. Pex is easy, but sloppy.

There's nothing wrong with proven technology.
There MIGHT be something wrong with the latest/greatest.

If I had to start building a tile shower for myself tomorrow, guess how I'd do it?
When I rebuilt my tub enclosure I converted from stem valves to a single lever. I replumbed with copper. I considered PEX with Sharkbite connectors, but the packaging for the Sharkbite connectors said not for sale in CA or VT. I figure that means there's something wrong with it, so I went with proven technology.

I tiled the enclosure with 4-1/4" square tile to match the existing walls. Took a little while (600 tiles, all told), but it looks nice and is holding up well.
troidus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 06:14 PM   #22
rufus
We're burning daylight...
 
rufus's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Coweta Oklahoma
Oddometer: 3,968
[QUOTE=Joetool;20811844
Your obviously taking this personally.


Calling me a "goober" in an internet forum where some one is asking an honest question because your afraid of change or unwilling to "LEARN" is retarded.

.[/QUOTE]


I am not taking this personal at all.

I did NOT call you a goober. Sorry if you read it that way.

I "learn" all the time. I have seen lots of new things come and go. I have studied the Kerdi shower system. If there is enough movement it will crack like anything else. The Kerdi system costs more, takes longer and is not as good as a mud bed. A mud bed is patchable ,in case of excessive movement, Kerdi system is not as patchable. If/when the Kerdi shower leaks it may not be apparent until the wall literally rots away. Try and do a faucet replacement on a wall with ditra. You will most likely replace the whole shower. BECAUSE you can pull that shit off the wall with 2 fingers. Ditto on a floor. I have used tons of Dal seal on floors. It will absorb hairline cracks. But BIG cracks won't just break tiles at the crack it will LOOSEN THE WHOLE FLOOR. The good side is that it is much much easier to tear out.

For years and years a mud shower, walls and floor was an 8 hour job for a tile setter and a helper. Not likely with kerdi or ditra. I am not saying that these are bad products. Just not as good as mud.

Styrofoam curbs and shower seats are another "New" idea that is turning into a problem. I have patched several. It takes 20 minutes ( + $10 in materials)to build a concrete curb and it will be there the rest of your life. you can't say that about a styrofoam curb.

I could go on and on.......but i won't.
rufus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 06:18 PM   #23
rufus
We're burning daylight...
 
rufus's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Coweta Oklahoma
Oddometer: 3,968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafitte View Post
After Hurricane Ike in 2008 , I built this shower using the Kerdi system.
Sold house in 2012. In that time there were no leaks and NO MOLD in grout lines. It wasn't that expensive initially and I would use it again.

No mold because it is well ventilated. Kerdi will NOT prevent mold, but fresh air will.


4 Years with no leaks........... Come back in 4 decades and lets see it.
rufus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 06:28 PM   #24
rufus
We're burning daylight...
 
rufus's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Coweta Oklahoma
Oddometer: 3,968
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Less Harley View Post
OK Rufus and I are the only "tile setters" here posting and he is absolutely right.

Cracks in the motor bed don't cause leaks!!!!!

I suspect if the pan leaks then it's tar paper or lead.

Thanks for the acknowledgement!

I have explained how and why cracks in mud floors don't cause leaks so many times that it boors me to death. I have explained it to a couple of architects, and scores of plumbers and homeowners. You can remove the tile from your floor and the shower shouldn't leak.

Lots of plumbers were reluctant to use " that cheap shit" (vinyl pan material), but it is the best stuff ever made, and is is relatively cheap. I have done hundreds of lead pan replacements.
rufus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2013, 06:34 PM   #25
rufus
We're burning daylight...
 
rufus's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Coweta Oklahoma
Oddometer: 3,968
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapidoxidationman View Post
There's more than one way to skin a cat, tile a shower, or plumb a house. Back in the '90's, grey poly pipe was the cure-all end-all to any plumbing problem... 'til they found out it leaked... I prefer copper. Pex is easy, but sloppy.
A friend of mine is an excellent plumber. He said that he has used pex for years and seen very few problems. But when he built himself a house he used all copper.
rufus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 09:01 AM   #26
clapped_r6 OP
The Spoad Warrior
 
clapped_r6's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Ridgefield, WA
Oddometer: 2,587
thanks for the replies and tips.

there was mention on mold, and this shower i'm doing is in a weird cubby that probably doesn't have the best ventilation.

what about tiling the shower with porcelain tile and latricrete epoxy grout? i've done some other tile work with this, and it turned out great. i had chosen the previous porcelain tile in part due to it's not suppposed to hold onto water nearly as much as ceramic. (i forget the absorption specs, but it was WAY lower)

who knew advrider was your one stop shop for anything you wanted to know?
__________________
colonel angus sez, "sometimes you just gotta superman that ho"
clapped_r6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 02:37 PM   #27
rufus
We're burning daylight...
 
rufus's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Coweta Oklahoma
Oddometer: 3,968
Quote:
Originally Posted by clapped_r6 View Post

what about tiling the shower with porcelain tile and latricrete epoxy grout?

Good choice.

There are different grades of epoxy. High temp/restaurant grade is nearly impossible to get to stay on a vertical surface and is VERY VERY VERY hard to use. But it is waterproof.

OR you can use regular grout and seal it. Sealers Choice Gold is an excellent sealer, best i have ever seen.
rufus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 02:57 PM   #28
One Less Harley
OH.THAT'S GONNA HURT
 
One Less Harley's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Bowling Green, Ky
Oddometer: 4,595
I have no preference for ceramic over porcelain, if both are of good quality. Just because it's porcelain doesn't mean it's better than ceramic. For cleaning ease go with a 1/8" grout joint with lugged tile, sanded grout is harder to clean and absorbs mold, soap scum, etc. I'd choose latex grout additive over epoxy for ease of application.
Get a tile with a slicker surface to be easy to wipe down and clean.

Don't sweat it over moisture absorption, the glaze prevents most of that. Moisture is taken in through the grout joints.

Make sure Bull nose or cap is available, notice in the shower pictured, no trim pieces used around the jam. Trim is costly though.

Make sure walls are plum if not be aware of it and what I will do to your cuts up the side of the wall. Check how your cuts end up before laying your 1st piece of tile. Level each run of tile, it's best to adjust tile up if out of level. You won't have much time to adjust tile with thinset.

Wipe down each run with a sponge to keep thinset out of joints and off surface. If you get thinset in joints scratch it out w/ a utility knife the next day. Don't wait two or three days to do it.

yeah, tile to the ceiling to help avoid mold to painted walls.



Also- new ways of doing things- remember int he early 90's when "they" said you could tile over plywood!!!! Yeap I'm an opinionated tile setter and have earned that over the years. IF it's got my name on it, I'm doing the job to give the customer the best job plus more importantly I'm going to protect my own ass on the job.
__________________
2004 BMW R1150RS
1984 BMW R80G/S
(wrenching index)
2003 Suzuki DRZ 400S (TAT Prep)
One More DRZ does the TAT (Ride Report)


One Less Harley screwed with this post 02-27-2013 at 03:10 PM
One Less Harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 04:47 PM   #29
clapped_r6 OP
The Spoad Warrior
 
clapped_r6's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Ridgefield, WA
Oddometer: 2,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus View Post
High temp/restaurant grade is nearly impossible to get to stay on a vertical surface and is VERY VERY VERY hard to use. But it is waterproof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Less Harley View Post
I'd choose latex grout additive over epoxy for ease of application.
interesting, i had no idea the epoxy stuff didn't want to go vertical. i used it exclusively on my downstairs floor, and it was a PITA to install (cleanup was tough!)

is it just kinda "runnier"?

again, thanks for the tips. invaluable knowledge to share.
__________________
colonel angus sez, "sometimes you just gotta superman that ho"
clapped_r6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2013, 05:14 PM   #30
troidus
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Oddometer: 11,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Less Harley View Post
Make sure walls are plum if not be aware of it and what I will do to your cuts up the side of the wall. Check how your cuts end up before laying your 1st piece of tile. Level each run of tile, it's best to adjust tile up if out of level. You won't have much time to adjust tile with thinset.
I tied into existing tile on the walls, so my lines had to follow what was there. That was fun getting everything lined up around three sides. Then I discovered that the new tile was labeled 4-1/4", but was actually 110mm, so the grout lines didn't line up after the first course anyway.

Quote:
Wipe down each run with a sponge to keep thinset out of joints and off surface. If you get thinset in joints scratch it out w/ a utility knife the next day. Don't wait two or three days to do it.
I used a stiff brush and water to scrub excess thinset out of the joints before it had a chance to dry.

Quote:
yeah, tile to the ceiling to help avoid mold to painted walls.
I stopped 9" short of the ceiling so if anything wasn't completely square it wouldn't be so obvious. The exposed wall above the tile is Durock with a thin layer of thinset filling in the pores before primer and paint, and the ceiling is greenboard.

Quote:
Also- new ways of doing things- remember int he early 90's when "they" said you could tile over plywood!!!! Yeap I'm an opinionated tile setter and have earned that over the years. IF it's got my name on it, I'm doing the job to give the customer the best job plus more importantly I'm going to protect my own ass on the job.
I used 1/2" Durock screwed to the studs and taped the seams with the thinset-tolerant gray adhesive mesh. The back wall of the enclosure is a double layer of Durock with the seams offset. I needed the extra half-inch to push the tub over to align with the plumbing, and if someone leans on it, it should be just that much stiffer.

Since the enclosure is on an exterior wall and the house was built without a vapor barrier, I hung a continuous piece of 10mil vinyl in the enclosure. I put up the first layer of Durock on the back wall floor to ceiling, put a piece of 10mil in from the floor to just above the tub mounting flange on the back wall, dropped the tub in, hung the vapor barrier, then put up the second layer of Durock on the back wall and a layer on the side walls. I then did not seal the Durock before tiling so any moisture that makes it behind the tile can evaporate back out rather than make a mold sandwich. Hopefully this works long-term and the next owner doesn't end up cussing me like I did the PO.
troidus is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014