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Old 02-25-2013, 02:33 PM   #1
GearHeadGrrrl OP
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Mounting advice needed- Guzzi Quota

Well, I've owned the Quota for 8 months now and it's still single... Gee, thought it'd be easy to get the Quota hitched. Hangups seem to be the Quotas rectangular frame tubing, the thousand mile distance from me to most of the hack mounting experts, and one local expert (Gary at Motorvation) talks suspiciously of welding lugs on the frame, and the other local expert (Lee Bruns) is busy as heck. Lee has been kind enough to sketch out a subframe for me though. But making said subframe would involve going way beyond my skill level. I'm halfway accomplished at twirling wrenches, but I still don't know how to weld, my workbench is an old wooden table, my vise is whatever vice grip or clamp works, my chop saw is a Sawzall, my drill press is a Milwaukee cordless drill, and I still haven't learned how to weld.

So I'm wondering how overbuilt I have to make this. Compared to the airheads that have previously accompanied my hacks, The Quota frame is hell for stout, and of thicker gage everywhere. For example, the subframe that carries the engine and could host the front mounts is 20 x 30 x 4 mm. thick, and the main frame is even more massive. Thus I'm wondering if a subframe would be required. So here's the simplest mounting strategy I've devised, with the diamonds of hot pink duct tape where the mounts would go.

The front upper mount is kinda hard to see behind the engine and fairing, but it would be one of Motorvation's clamp assemblies for round tubes with a bit of grinding to adapt the anvil to the Quota's ovalish rectangular tubes; The front lower mount is the same. The rear upper mount is one of Motorvation's clevises mounted into a 1/2' hole drilled into the frame, it's pretty meaty there and I believe this is the way Jay at DMC does his mounts. Jay, feel free to chime in. There's a couple options for the rear lower mount- there's a pair of 12 mm. or so bolts that attach the engine cradle subframe, or I could drill into the recessed part of the casting that those bolts pass through.

Same as the first picture, except the front lower mount is moved from the downtube to the horizontal tube under the frame. Gets it a little farther from the front upper mount but closer to the rear lower mount, so not sure if this would be much of an improvement.

Now we're gettin serious! The front lower clevis mount is inserted into a recess into the cast transition piece joining the downtube and lower horizontal subframe tube, getting that mount as far away from the other mounts as possible; The web of that casting looks to be about 4 mm. thick. The rear upper mount moves up as high as possible, making for a bigger "torque box" there and less stress on the frame. Bit more complicated, but probably within my fabbing abilities though.

This is to the best of my memory (I lost the sheet of paper he sketched it on) Lee's belt and braces solution, ready for any conceiveable road and load! Lee's subframe layout is outlined in orange duct tape, wish the pink mount locations stuck out a bit better against the orange. Lee suggested 1-1/2" steel bar in 1/2" thickness for the horizontal member and 5/8" thickness for the vertical members. There's adequate clearance in most cases for that heavy a metal, and the footpegs can be moved out a bit with longer bolts. The subframe moves the front upper mount higher and forward and the rear mounts back an inch or so. It would be hell for stout, and there's a whole bunch of mounts for the rear subframe and such that could be tied into. Awesome design, but probably beyond my abilities to construct.

So, any suggestions or opinions?
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:38 PM   #2
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Sorry, pix didn't make it, URL here...

http://gearheadgrrrl.smugmug.com/Mot...8242&k=4gDCh6K

I'll try to get smugmug to do it's job later.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadGrrrl View Post
Well, I've owned the Quota for 8 months now and it's still single... Gee, thought it'd be easy to get the Quota hitched. Hangups seem to be the Quotas rectangular frame tubing, the thousand mile distance from me to most of the hack mounting experts, and one local expert (Gary at Motorvation) talks suspiciously of welding lugs on the frame, and the other local expert (Lee Bruns) is busy as heck. Lee has been kind enough to sketch out a subframe for me though. But making said subframe would involve going way beyond my skill level. I'm halfway accomplished at twirling wrenches, but I still don't know how to weld, my workbench is an old wooden table, my vise is whatever vice grip or clamp works, my chop saw is a Sawzall, my drill press is a Milwaukee cordless drill, and I still haven't learned how to weld.

So I'm wondering how overbuilt I have to make this. Compared to the airheads that have previously accompanied my hacks, The Quota frame is hell for stout, and of thicker gage everywhere. For example, the subframe that carries the engine and could host the front mounts is 20 x 30 x 4 mm. thick, and the main frame is even more massive. Thus I'm wondering if a subframe would be required. So here's the simplest mounting strategy I've devised, with the diamonds of hot pink duct tape where the mounts would go.

The front upper mount is kinda hard to see behind the engine and fairing, but it would be one of Motorvation's clamp assemblies for round tubes with a bit of grinding to adapt the anvil to the Quota's ovalish rectangular tubes; The front lower mount is the same. The rear upper mount is one of Motorvation's clevises mounted into a 1/2' hole drilled into the frame, it's pretty meaty there and I believe this is the way Jay at DMC does his mounts. Jay, feel free to chime in. There's a couple options for the rear lower mount- there's a pair of 12 mm. or so bolts that attach the engine cradle subframe, or I could drill into the recessed part of the casting that those bolts pass through.

Same as the first picture, except the front lower mount is moved from the downtube to the horizontal tube under the frame. Gets it a little farther from the front upper mount but closer to the rear lower mount, so not sure if this would be much of an improvement.

Now we're gettin serious! The front lower clevis mount is inserted into a recess into the cast transition piece joining the downtube and lower horizontal subframe tube, getting that mount as far away from the other mounts as possible; The web of that casting looks to be about 4 mm. thick. The rear upper mount moves up as high as possible, making for a bigger "torque box" there and less stress on the frame. Bit more complicated, but probably within my fabbing abilities though.

This is to the best of my memory (I lost the sheet of paper he sketched it on) Lee's belt and braces solution, ready for any conceiveable road and load! Lee's subframe layout is outlined in orange duct tape, wish the pink mount locations stuck out a bit better against the orange. Lee suggested 1-1/2" steel bar in 1/2" thickness for the horizontal member and 5/8" thickness for the vertical members. There's adequate clearance in most cases for that heavy a metal, and the footpegs can be moved out a bit with longer bolts. The subframe moves the front upper mount higher and forward and the rear mounts back an inch or so. It would be hell for stout, and there's a whole bunch of mounts for the rear subframe and such that could be tied into. Awesome design, but probably beyond my abilities to construct.

So, any suggestions or opinions?
Put the Guzzi in the truck drop it off at Claude's shop, pick it up in 3 or 4 months, and you will be VERY HAPPY
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Old 02-25-2013, 04:27 PM   #4
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Claude does great work, but...

Those two round trips from southwest MN to Claude's total about 5000 miles at 15 or so MPG= $1200 in gas plus motels for 6 nights.
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:45 PM   #5
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Before someone types "this thread needs pics'....
GearHeadgrrrll 's photos.

1.


2.


3.


4.



Is the Quota's frame cast aluminium?
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Old 02-25-2013, 06:55 PM   #6
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Thanks!

And the frame is steel.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:45 PM   #7
Ajacks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadGrrrl View Post
Those two round trips from southwest MN to Claude's total about 5000 miles at 15 or so MPG= $1200 in gas plus motels for 6 nights.
I know, I waited a long time before I just decided I need to do this. The truck part was not bad, the planning with Claude was a lot of fun, the waiting was hard, but man I've had a lot of motorcycles and one other hack but nothing this great. This was one of the best moves ever. You can see the rig on the 'hack' thread under Chicago motorcycle show. Good luck
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:04 PM   #8
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It's a budget buster...

I'd have no qualms about paying Claude for his most excellent work... But $1500 to get the bike there and back? Heck, I only paid $1500 for the hack, got $2000 in it now and $4000 in the bike. And BTW, it ain't as simple as "throw it in the pickup", there's a double wide sidecar to be hauled too and that means the 6 by 12 trailer that will drag the pickups MPG down from 20 MPG to 15 MPG.

This is one of the realities of hack'n a bike- If you take it to a sidecar mounter over a days drive away, the cost will go through the roof. I'm continually amazed at the folks who buy bikes and hacks and cars and other big stuff clear across the country, then get all surprised at what it'll cost to get their "prize" home.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:30 PM   #9
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I saw this Quota at last summer's USCA rally in Idaho--




I bet if you posted up over in the USCA forum, somebody would fess up to being the guy in the pic. He might be of some help.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajacks View Post
I know, I waited a long time before I just decided I need to do this. The truck part was not bad, the planning with Claude was a lot of fun, the waiting was hard, but man I've had a lot of motorcycles and one other hack but nothing this great. This was one of the best moves ever. You can see the rig on the 'hack' thread under Chicago motorcycle show. Good luck
Ajacks--you own the Chicago Moto Show 1200GS rig? Didn't realize it was yours! You gotta start a new thread for that rig and show it on the road. And update your profile--it's not in your list of rides. And come out to the Bigfoot Rendezvous this summer!
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:33 AM   #11
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I am pretty sure that I am hacking my Quota some time soon. Maybe in a couple of weeks. If I do I am pretty sure I am going with the DMC subframe. I have built a few subframes for other bikes but by the time I buy materials, special hardware, and then take to the time to build it, I am ahead of the game if I just buy one from Jay.

I assume you are going with one of your Motorvation sidecars on it?
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:04 AM   #12
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Closer than Claude

Kurt Liebhaber whats not to like with a German handle like that.
http://www.sidecar-industry.com/SCF/scf.htm

He's in N Il and comes highly recommended, I didn't use him when I should have awhile back.DB

Being a former Guzzi owner (SP1) and always having admired the old Italian workhorses, there are other things to consider, the Quota heaviest of all big adv tourers has a 21" front wheel, I haven't looked but can one get a really hack appropriate(large) front tire given that the majority of the brake force is on the front wheel it's good to have something that hangs on like grim death.
If your hanging a Motorvation double wide on it let Marys guys weld to the frame with the promise to get the chair back as far as possible to unload the front, I own an even rarer Italian bird a Ducati Elefant its failed to become a collectors item as has the Quota go ahead and modify it.DB
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davebig screwed with this post 02-26-2013 at 08:01 AM Reason: added stuff
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:22 AM   #13
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Yup, I'd just as soon use an off the shelf solution...

And Jay would have a much better chance of selling me his stuff if I could see what it looked like, but he's all paranoid about the Chinese copying it. Memo to Jay: Motorvation has had on their website drawings of their mounts of high enough quality for someone to make clones of them for years. I see hundreds of sidecars a year, and I have yet to see a clone of Motorvation's mounts. Plain and simple, the Chinese et al aren't going to bother cloning sidecar mounts for low volume bikes. And of course, the hack will be a Motorvation F2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hahnda View Post
I am pretty sure that I am hacking my Quota some time soon. Maybe in a couple of weeks. If I do I am pretty sure I am going with the DMC subframe. I have built a few subframes for other bikes but by the time I buy materials, special hardware, and then take to the time to build it, I am ahead of the game if I just buy one from Jay.

I assume you are going with one of your Motorvation sidecars on it?
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:38 AM   #14
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Kurt does great work...

Not sure if he's still working on hacks though, but he's only about 500 miles from me.

I'm familiar with the 21" front wheel from the R100GS the F2 is currently mounted on. The Quota is about 10% heavier than the GS, so shouldn't be a major problem, and with double discs the GS doesn't have should make locking that front wheel possible on dry pavement. In short, shouldn't be a problem and welding tabs on isn't going to fix said non problem.

Welding is fine on Harley frames that are made of thick guage "gas pipe", but on higher quality bikes like BMW and Guzzi the frames tend to be made of heat treated alloy steels that can be easily weakened by careless welding. If we knew the metallurgy of the Quota's frame and how to properly weld on it, no problem... But we don't. So it'd be best to attach to the frame via bolts, clamps, etc.. There's also the issue of Motrovation's clamps designed for round frames, could cut or grind the anvil to match the Quota's rectangular frame tubes, but some square straps would need to be made and I don't believe Motorvation makes them in house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davebig View Post
Kurt Liebhaber whats not to like with a German handle like that.
http://www.sidecar-industry.com/SCF/scf.htm

He's in N Il and comes highly recommended, I didn't use him when I should have awhile back.DB

Being a former Guzzi owner (SP1) and always having admired the old Italian workhorses, there are other things to consider, the Quota heaviest of all big adv tourers has a 21" front wheel, I haven't looked but can one get a really hack appropriate(large) front tire given that the majority of the brake force is on the front wheel it's good to have something that hangs on like grim death.
If your hanging a Motorvation double wide on it let Marys guys weld to the frame with the promise to get the chair back as far as possible to unload the front, I own an even rarer Italian bird a Ducati Elefant its failed to become a collectors item as has the Quota go ahead and modify it.DB
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:54 AM   #15
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Heat treated alloy steels in a Guzzi frame ? You may have read too much advertising, they don't use Chrom-moly , I hang out in a high quality welding shop in MN there's plenty of folks who could tig weld hard points on the Guzzi frame tying it together side to side is the hard bit. It has 2 front motormounts, 2 footpeg mounts and a center stand to connect too add highpoints for the upper mounts and you have a subframe ground clearance with an F2 isn't going to be critical.Kurt, Claude and even Jay get paid for what they know.DB
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