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Old 02-26-2013, 11:23 AM   #1
Rob.G OP
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Oregon HB2265 - Photo Radar

There's another bill in the Oregon House of Representatives to worry about. HB2265 will allow for photo radar in construction zones, even when nobody is working.

I'm opposed to ANY use of photo radar. Just like red light cameras, it's a violation of the 4th Amendment (the right to confront your accuser), and really has nothing to do with traffic safety. Even allowing this only for construction zones in any form means it'd be headed for regular use throughout the state in short order.

There are a bunch of other new bills that introduce all kinds of new taxes and fees. If you want to read about them, go here: http://www.afpmultnomah.com/?p=678

Meanwhile, please contact your local representatives and ask them to oppose HB2265.

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Old 02-26-2013, 01:31 PM   #2
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Your 4th amendment argument--at least in Portland--has been dealt with. There now has to be a live human in the photo radar van. He can, and will, testify if you really need to face your accuser. They are usually cops on light duty.

Furthermore, they've been using photo radar vans in construction zones in Portland for some time. I know, I got popped on the Morrison Bridge when they were re-vamping it. Did I deserve it? Damn right, there were signs everywhere and I was too distracted to see them. In Oregon, they have to post a sign at least a 100 feet before the van warning you they are using them and it was my own damn stupidity for not seeing them.

Even though I got popped, I have no problems with photo radar in construction zones. A lot of people get killed every year in construction zones. I also have no problem for red light photo radar, unless they open red light runners to be used as clay pigeons.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:40 PM   #3
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Okay, there's some ignorance going on here... allow me to educate.

Red light cameras have NOTHING to do with traffic safety. NOTHING AT ALL. They are there to generate revenue and nothing more. They function because the yellow light timing has not been set according to Federal guidelines. Municipalities have figured this out -- by setting the yellow light timing too short, the red light cameras are extremely profitable.

Each and every time the yellow light timing has been reset to the proper length, the cameras have stopped being profitable and been removed.

And sorry, I still don't buy the constitutionality of the photo radar, even with the vans. There is no way any cop is going to reasonably remember any specific vehicle getting photographed by his station, and I bet any decent amount of cross examination in court will prove that. Again, it's just a money grab.

And the whole, "lots of people get killed every year in construction zones," is probably more manufactured statistics. I don't buy any of it. It's just another method Big Brother wants to use to "control" the population and extract every last cent out of them.

If the behavior they purport to be such a problem existed in such high degree, they would have a real cop on duty running real radar and stopping people.

When you got popped, were you doing anything unsafe? I'm betting you weren't, even if you happened to be going faster than the arbitrary number on the speed limit sign. Let's remember that traffic laws are supposed to exist for safety reasons, not revenue generation. There's way too much exploitation of the LETTER of the law and very little attention paid to the SPIRIT of the law.

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Old 02-26-2013, 01:53 PM   #4
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You're correct, there is some ignorance going on here. Got data to back up your claims?

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications.../safety/05049/

That study shows that red light camera do affect traffic safety. Go to wikipedia and see even more references: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_light_camera

You may disagree with my opinion but that does not make it ignorant. And for the record, I wasn't arguing for the constitutionality of the use of photo radar.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:58 PM   #5
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Of course the GOVERNMENT is going to say it affects safety.

http://fox4kc.com/2012/01/24/study-r...intersections/

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...safety-641842/

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articl...nue-not-safety

http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/


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Old 02-26-2013, 02:22 PM   #6
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Sounds like a great idea. If people can't slow down in a construction zone they deserve a ticket. I got nailed by a van once and it was 100% earned. I paid it and move on with my life.

I drive as fast as I want on my property. On public streets I live with the consequences if I don't follow the rules.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:27 AM   #7
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???????

And the reason for a "safety" speed limit - backed by a camera - when there is no workers present is ........??

4r
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by 4r22mny View Post
And the reason for a "safety" speed limit - backed by a camera - when there is no workers present is ........??

4r
What if one guy came back to get his lunch box after work and everyone was speeding through his workplace thinking that he was already home drinking a beer?
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:27 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by 4r22mny View Post
And the reason for a "safety" speed limit - backed by a camera - when there is no workers present is ........??

4r
Hows about uneven pavement, metal plates, turns in the lane, gravel, holes, unicorn shit who knows? As someone in the medical field who has taken care of quite a few flaggers and road workers all I can say is please slow down.
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:32 AM   #10
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As someone in the medical field who has taken care of quite a few flaggers and road workers all I can say is please slow down.

Thanks.






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Old 03-01-2013, 07:02 PM   #11
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There's a simple solution, don't speed. I have no problem with people getting tickets for speeding through construction zones. I see lots of people blasting through them without slowing down significantly, and I suspect that this could help. Let's not forget that they are breaking the law, and putting the lives of other innocent people at risk.

I also don't see how radar vans could be unconstitutional. I'm no constitutional lawyer though, so I won't debate that one.

Seriously, lighten up, big brother isn't out to get you.

If it makes you feel better, you could think of photo radar as a way for the government to cut costs while still effectively enforcing laws.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:15 PM   #12
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radar camera

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Old 03-01-2013, 07:17 PM   #13
Rob.G OP
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Originally Posted by avgas View Post
There's a simple solution, don't speed. I have no problem with people getting tickets for speeding through construction zones. I see lots of people blasting through them without slowing down significantly, and I suspect that this could help. Let's not forget that they are breaking the law, and putting the lives of other innocent people at risk.

I also don't see how radar vans could be unconstitutional. I'm no constitutional lawyer though, so I won't debate that one.

Seriously, lighten up, big brother isn't out to get you.

If it makes you feel better, you could think of photo radar as a way for the government to cut costs while still effectively enforcing laws.
OMG it blows my mind how some of you people think. Either that or you never read anything I've already posted.

The whole premise of this is that the current speed laws are BULLSHIT. Not only that, construction zones are bullshit too because they exist for far too long. And they also exist, in many cases, to generate revenue, and only revenue. Why the hell are they wanting to allow photo radar in these zones EVEN WHEN PEOPLE AREN'T WORKING? That is one of the main points of this.

And just because somebody happens to be going faster than some arbitrary number on a sign doesn't mean anything about putting other people's lives at risk. That too, is utter BULLSHIT. Those numbers on the signs change based entirely on the political climate. You're giving entirely too much credit to a government whose true purpose is to extract money from the populace.

The 4th Amendment clearly states that you have the right to face your accuser. A photo radar unit is not a person; it's a machine. How exactly are you supposed to face this accuser and question it? Can't be done. So the cops stick an officer in the van to supposedly get around this. You really think this lard-ass is going to sit there and closely observe every single photo taken? Do you really think he's going to remember you specifically? Nope. Not gonna happen. And any half-way decent cross-examination of him in court will bring this to light and the case will be thrown out. That is, unless Oregon traffic courts work like they do in Nevada, where you're guilty until proven more guilty (but that's another story).

If they want to make construction zones safer, the key is to have a REAL COP on duty OBSERVING traffic and going after the people who are driving in an unsafe manner. That could be Granny in the Prius doing 45 in the left lane that people want desperately to get around, or it could be the idiot texting, doing the speed limit, yet swerving all over his lane, or yeah, it could be the kid in the old Camaro doing 85 cutting through traffic. Lots of scenarios for potential disaster... but which one of the three is gonna get hit with the photo radar? Only one of the three. Or, let's even say that the kid in the Camaro is doing the speed limit but still cutting through traffic. Is that going to be picked up on the photo radar? Nope. With a real cop on duty, you can be quite sure at least one of them will be nabbed.

So how exactly is photo radar going to TRULY make construction zones safer? Give government less credit for thinking they know better than you.

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Old 03-01-2013, 09:37 PM   #14
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Give government less credit for thinking they know better than you.

Rob
Government does know better than you. Most of you anyway. And by you, I me us.

I'd love to keep getting re-hired to do a job most people think I suck at. Keep getting annual pay raises, COLA increases. Keep getting those same people that think I suck to pay for more shit for me (trips, cars with drivers, education, etc...) in the name of doing my job. I'd like the sweet benefits package. I'd love the work schedule.

I'm afraid those in government do know better than we think. I also know better than to speed in construction zones. And other places with a likelihood of camera enforced speed limits or red lights. I also know that when I do get popped for 75 in a 45 construction zone, I rightfully should pay the ticket and maybe just eat a little crow.

It's clearly not about Auntie Gladys doing 45, Jake the Snake in the Camaro, or Johnny Duwrong texting and driving erratically.

You want 'real cops observing'? How much is that gonna cost? And where exactly is that money going to come from? Not from the people in government I bet.




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Old 03-01-2013, 09:38 PM   #15
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dude,,

settle down.
I done tolt you once,,
paintball guns!
Make a sport of it,, that's the amerikun way!
I bet you the next sixpack that I can ride my bicycle around the nayborhood and take out more cameras than you!
first one back with the most kills in 1/2 hour,,bet starts NOW!
Pellet guns optional, and score value points,,
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