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Old 02-28-2013, 02:28 PM   #1
bobfab OP
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Honda Trail90 - Project Labor of Love

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster (in the scooters forum)!

I have this build thread on my personal message board, but figured i would syndicate it here to get some advice, input, etc... now that it is taking shape.

Background: I cant seem to stop tinkering with moto's and while i already am inundated with too many projects, i thought it was an appropriate time to take on another! What makes this one a little different is that it is a co-op project with my girlfriend Kitty. This will be a starter bike for her, a commuter for me and just a great camping type bike.

Hi!


The agreement with project Labor of Love is that i cannot turn any wrenches solo. My wonderful honey must be present and working on it too. So if there are any lapses in updates its probably because we couldn't find the time to work in the garage together (aka BLAME KITTY!). Without further adiu, lets get started.

This is what i dragged home from another ADV'r in Fort Collins:

A 1972 Chassis, 2 motors in pieces, many exhausts, center stand, passenger seat and random parts

After we got it off the truck, we figured we should take some pics in a location that symbolizes where we are starting:


The lovely Kitty wheeling it over to the garage:


The starting spot:



At the end of day 1:


The goals for this project are a light resto-mod:
- 12V electrics
- Donor Chinese motor with E-start
- A platable scoot for local riding
- Retain that classic honda look!

I shopped on DR. ATV and ebay for a long time finding a donor motor. While i was very impressed with the economy of the new options i still wasnt ready to spend the money on piecing it all together. I scoured craigslist for weeks and eventually found a suitable donor. Enter the green machine:

110cc's of fury, e-start and it runs. The PO got it front a friend as a basketcase, got it running but didnt understand how to wire in the battery and e-starter; so i swooped it up! The engine is unmarked but looks really similar to a lifan engine. It is a 4speed (4down Rotary shift pattern). Eventually we are discussing piecing together a good honda motor and swapping it in for use as a play bike, but that is very far from now! For now, we want to focus on getting this Trail90 up to snuff!

We had one more day of tearing down the Trail90, so those photos to follow, but the biggest milestone should come this weekend. For the first time in weeks we have a free weekend so we are going to start the swap over and see how far we can get!

Thanks for reading!
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:35 AM   #2
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The PO of the pitbike included a battery in sale and there is a battery box on the pitbike. I hope they fit in the ole trail 90!

I have seen the befores and afters of many similar projects but not too many formal project threads. I hope this helps some folks with their swaps. It should be a cheap way to breathe some new life into a old honda!
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:48 AM   #3
MotoRandy123
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I had a 6 AH battery on an old DR350 and you didn't get too many trys to start it. That looks like a supercub clone engine though so it should be possible to
get something setup for it.

Rust in the tank and on the forks are the biggest problems on these. You will need a 10mm drill bit to open up the bolt holes for the engine mount. I found the
spoke nipples on mine are around 4.4mm, this is a weird size but there is a wrench made by park tool for special Shimano bicycle spokes that is 4.3 and 4.4mm.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:07 PM   #4
mbabc
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I'll be tuned in! Great story but you're half way done.

Next time start with this...





Add one of these...





and this...




A xr100 frontend, a Honda Cub swingarm and a frankenbike is being formed.

Not going to crash your thread anymore. Looking forward to more on your build
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:27 PM   #5
bobfab OP
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Feel free to crash all you want. No worries!

Okay back on track here. So since the last update we had another teardown day in the garage. We pulled all the break assembly stuff off, gave the wheels and tires a quick spitshine (Coke & Aluminum foil works wonders), and eventually pulled the motor out of the chassis:


GET OUT!

We were left with a big pile of parts:

Which we organized and cleaned up (With the help of garage dog "Panda")

And thats where we left it prior to this weekend:


Fast forward to this weekend. What was going to be an intimate couple garage session turned into an all afternoon drinking affair with friends!

We figured before we get too carried away tearing down it was time to compare the bikes side-by-side and do some demo riding tutoring some who had never ridden a bike before:



The Donor:

Gettin' her out:



Finally Free:

And about an hour later it was in the new (ahem... old) chassis





... and it runs!

At that point we had reached too many snags to continue. The sun was setting, the beers were getting warm and the group's interest was waning.

The swap was a moderate success, there are a number of issues to overcome:
- The Trail 90 exhaust didnt bolt up. No suprise there, i am going to weld the pitbike "flange/collar" to the Trail90 exhaust tomorrow.
- The wiring is a total mess and rigged up for the time being
- The chain with the motor didnt fit the Trail90 sprocket (different size?), we tried improvising with all the sprockets we had from the donors but couldnt come up with a pair that worked.
- The rear motor mount bolt didnt line up (Time for Dr. ATV mount kit?)
- Brakes still disconnected
- Running off of pitbike gas tank. Gotta clean and plumb up the trail 90 tank!
- Clutch cable too short for comfort.
- Throttle assembly scavenged from pitbike, but cable is too long...

At this point i am starting to question whether it is worth the effort to reuse the stock levers and switchgear. I like the chrome finishes but they are showing age and nothing seems to be the same as the donor components. Any input inmates? Keep retrofitting it or just move on to modern levers/switchgear?
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:45 PM   #6
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The exhaust is a known issue. The DR has some 1/2 round collars to allow it to work but it's small for a 125. The sprockets are 428 on the CT and 420 on the pit bike (a new 428 front is only $10 on ebay, measure the largest diameter on the countershaft 17mm or 20mm). I'm needing the lower motor mount for 2 bikes they are temporarily unavailable on DTATV...

Wow 3 mufflers! I didn't even get one...

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Old 03-04-2013, 01:56 PM   #7
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Starting with the wiring--if the stuff off the pit bike is in decent shape use it as the basis of a home-made harness. 40+ year old wiring--plus the fact that the modern engine is set up to be a 12v. system vs. the antique CT which is 6v--is the main reason for this. One of the new harnesses built for a 12v. e-start CT-70 clone would be another idea.

The CT came with a #428 chain vs. the more common #420 on the clones. You'll have to either fit a Passport rear sprocket or have one custom cut. Modern #420 chains are more than stout enough for even the largest clone motors.

Personally I'd use aftermarket lever assemblies and not use the OEM stuff. On the carb my buddy mbabc is using we found the standard CT-90 cable/throttle assembly/bars will work but using the stock brake lever will require either modifying the brake cable or cutting off the lever mount and using an aftermarket assembly since he's using an XR-100 front end. Motion Pro will build you a custom throttle cable. Is the stock switchgear built into the throttle housing worth saving? A definite maybe. Use an ohm meter and check to see if they're functioning after a bath in WD-40.

Refer to Dr. ATV's information/parts of how he puts Chinese Honda 50/70 clone motors into CT-90/110 chassis. His mounting kit is one way--or you could have a fabricator redo the chassis to accept the 50/70 style motor.
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:09 PM   #8
bobfab OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoRandy123
Wow 3 mufflers! I didn't even get one...
Wanna buy one? haha Thanks for the info, i need the DR to sell those motor mounts again ASAP!

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsrat
wiring
Agreed. The wiring that is on the engine is in good shape and not too hacked together. I am going to use this for the basis of the harness and upgrade along the way. The CT wiring is brittle and not really up to the task! Plus i want E-start 12v etc... I have rewired my fair share of bikes and cars. This should be a pretty easy task once i sit down and draw it all out.

I am just too on the fence about the honda switchgear. The wiring is show and i think some of the switches are too, might just have to scrap and start over. Anyone know of any decent quality cheap switch gear?

So a Honda Passport uses a 420 chain and is the same bolt pattern as a Trail90 hub? The 420 chain i have from the clone is in good shape and i would like to reuse that. I will have to do some measuring to see what the best plan forward is here...

thanks for the help and following along guys!
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:32 AM   #9
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I'm onto the wiring too. I think I'll run batteryless. The headlight will run off AC with a 35/35 watt bulb massaged into the stock housing. I smashed the BA7 bulbs in the dash and soldered some LED's into them.

I'll try to use the switchgear (high/low headlight and horn only) and rear brake switch. The rear brake/running light is in good shape and a 12V 1157 bulb fits right in.

Not sure if I can reuse the harness or do a whole new one. The original has nice bullet connectors and is fully covered but the changes might be easier with loose wires...
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:02 AM   #10
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sounds like a good plan. i would love to shed a battery from the bike fleet, but part of the whole reason for the swap is to retain E-start, so i think i will be keeping mine

Your ideas with bulbs sound good, i am pretty far from the lighting circuits and harness, my primary goal is to get the engine harness all spiffy!

I need a new taillense assembly if anyone knows of one!
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:30 AM   #11
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Oh ya E-start, I forgot about that. You will have to swap everything over to 12V
and wire it a bit differently. I may want to get a plate to ride it on the streets to
get to the trails so might set it up with battery connections just put a bunch of
caps there for now.

I took mine all apart to paint it and now am putting it back together. I cannot
order the lower motor mount so I'll fix the lights and switches then tackle the harness.

I have the original wiring diagram as well as some modified ones. You can get
many of them over at the HondaClone Yahoo group. There is some variability
as to how they run, how they're wired, etc. You may have to upgrade to a 5
pole stator to get some serious power to recharge the battery. Some pitbikes
might not have the lighting coil, etc. So there's a lot to getting the wiring completed...
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:22 PM   #12
bobfab OP
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work on a workday.

We had a snag with the exhaust of the pitbike not fitting on the CT, and the CT exhaust not fitting on the pitbike motor. I have had a welder doing some spiral ductwork welding for me this week, so i figured i could give him a crack at swapping exhaust flanges between the pipes. He did a great job and the old CT pipe is now on the bike; no leaks! (tu)



New flange on CT chrome exhaust:


Old flange on pitbike pipe
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:57 PM   #13
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Correction--the Passport sprocket will NOT bolt up to the CT-90 sprocket hub but the Passport sprocket hub will fit on the CT-90 wheel. There was a JT brand Passport sprocket for sale new on eBay for $20.76 with free delivery and the seller had dimensions on it. I decided to make sure it would fit the CT hub, went home and measured one and found out otherwise.

When the current project was going together I just called Rebel Gears and told them to cut me a #420 sprocket to fit a CT-200 hub, not ever checking to see if it was the same. Doh!!!

If anyone's ordered one because of my mistake let me know and I'll buy it from you to atone for my sin.
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Eek!! More boring fiction--One Last Ride in the Hoosier Revisited:
http://woodsrat.com/one-last-ride-in...-by-tim-weaver
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:34 AM   #14
bobfab OP
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DR ATV has the rear motor mount in stock again!! The project is back on!

I will have to measure for some sprockets to find one to work. I also may see if i can get my current clone sprocket redrilled!

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Old 04-04-2013, 12:01 PM   #15
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CT90 exhaust...

Hello, nice build... I'm doing a complete resto of a 1968 CT90 (pics will follow), I'm interested in one of your exhausts/muffler. I guess the one's that have the horizontal holes are of the same era as mine.
I'm interested in just the muffler... shields and hardware i already have.
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