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Old 03-13-2013, 08:59 AM   #256
Boon Booni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farqhuar View Post
Explain how?

I'm another who always covers the levers, and have done for over 40 years of riding. To me, it is the single biggest improvement you can make to enhance your riding safety.
It was a fluke.

I was on my morning commute, just entered 3 lane interstate. I'm covering clutch and brake with two fingers each. First 2 lanes are moving about 35mph and the fast lane is moving about 45mph. I find a hole and move to the center lane, but it's tight. I want to move into the left lane so I glance over left shoulder to verify the small hole I see in my mirror. So it's Mirror, Look forward, head check, look forward and car in front is stopping. I'm covering the brake so I pull the lever. What I didn't realize is that my fingers weren't totally hooked over the lever so my fingers slip from the lever, but the tips of my glove are still hooked over the lever. I pull and pull some more realize that I'm not slowing fast enough (I am also on the rear brake) because I'm pulling with the tips of my glove and not my fingers. I "know" there's small a hole to my left but also that I've been slowing instead of accelerating. Bang a clutchless downshift, swerve left and nail the throttle and ride the line. I was in the new hole but just barely.

It was a fluke that my fingers slipped, but I don't think it would have happened if I hadn't been covering the brake because I would have given the lever a good reach and grab.

YMMV.
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Boon Booni screwed with this post 03-13-2013 at 09:06 AM
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:02 AM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redog1 View Post
since I was 9 yo. I don't know everything and I ain't shit on a bike but I have to call B/S when I see it. REALLY 100% of the time? B/S. Think about it REALLY. Sorry, Don't want to start a pissin match in your thread but enough of the arm chair 1/4 backing. The guy had an accident, it happens, thankfully he lived through it, let it go.
I will admit for me its probably not 100% of the time, when I am rolling down a smooth road or section of trail, I will relax my hands and take my fingers off the levers, but down roads exactly like the one in the video I can assure you, they are covered 100% of that time. My personal issue is, that my rear brake is adjusted to be right were I need it while Im standing. I do stand a majority of the time, people comment on it all the time. So for this concession I do find the rear lever in the wrong spot for the seated position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joefromsf View Post
Again ARZ, thanks for the post. I'll definitely work on covering the controls, as its easily done by just riding my existing bikes. I know the benefits of muscle memory (from rock climbing), but the smaller bike thing just isn't likely to happen. I live in the middle of San Francisco. It's about 1.5 hours to OHV parks and 2.5 - 3 hours to all day dirt riding in National Forests. I rarely get out for day rides, more common are long planned weekend or weeklong adventures.

Anyway, glad I'm here to share this adventure. Maybe see you around a campfire sometime.
Im jealous you get to live in the beautiful Bay area, and at the same time bummed you have such a long drive to get to OHV areas. Reminds me of how fortunate I am to be 20 minutes from an amazing area with over 150 miles of singletrack and COUNTLESS more miles of sand washes, jeep roads, and river rock fields to string them all together. Actually within a 40 minute drive there are more than 5 areas, with over 400 miles of singletrack total.

Didn't mean to lecture, and I'm glad you are willing to try new things, but if you ever get a chance to borrow a friends light weight trail bike, please take them up on it, you wont regret it. You don't have to do the gnarly stuff, but you will have fun.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:08 AM   #258
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Eek Options

I have read through this thread.

First I am glad you were not injured. That was a very scary moment after you went off the edge.

That said, your comments on why it happened etc all kind of hit home. I think one thing that had not been touched on is simply reaction time. You were tired, recovering from a cold, pharmaceuticaly enhanced etc etc.

The same thing happened to me, on the ride all of a sudden the bike ended up in the tree. Nothing really caused it to happen other than the front bounced, rear got weighted and major traction. No time to react.

Bottom line is sometimes the bikes reaction to terrain is quicker than our minds can process, comprehend and react in a preventative manner.

The average reaction time for men over 20 is between .5 and .9 seconds. Throw in fatigue etc and it increases. Looking at the time line between when the bike went sideways and you wend down the hill seems to fall within that time frame.

Basically is was a calamity of errors that perfectly aligned, like what happened to me below, but much more dramatic and with video.





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Old 03-13-2013, 10:18 AM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redog1 View Post
I'll just say this and I'll leave it alone, Do you ever take your hand of the bars to: scratch an itch, wipe the dust from your gps, raise or lower your face shield, wipe the rain from you face shield, fiddle with you gps/i-phone/something in the tank bag, adjust your mirrors, etc, etc....?

If you do then you DON'T cover your levers 100% of the time and you allow that window of opportunity to open. Personally I don't know how anybody can ride and not do some of these things, REALLY? Like I said I'm a realist.
Don't be an ass. I don't cover the clutch and brake at 12 mph on a pool table level trail. I don't cover them on the highway at all times (like the noted exceptions above), but I do pick my moments to do those things carefully. An exposed trail is not that time. Traffic is not that time. Dusk on the highway is not that time.


The OP was clearly riding into a technical section, and he knew it if he was up on the pegs. This is a time to cover and even put light pressure on the clutch BEFORE you start the section. Most off-road riders (enduro/Hare Scramble style), or any who had participated in any off road riding training classes would probably be slipping (or on the verge of slipping) the clutch through that entire step up. It is considered a basic skill in almost any off road curriculum because it is a very important technique. A very slight power adjustment could have saved the day (and you can do those best by slipping the clutch). I wouldn't say it absolutely would have, but when on a trail with that kind of exposure, you play every card in your hand.

I just did the UTBDR with a BMW F650GS Dakar at about 450lbs plus me. My left forearm was very sore due to all the clutch slipping I did.

More importantly I am glad the OP was OK, I'm glad he made the right decision to cut his trip when he did. I'm glad he is seriously evaluating this incident, and doing what he can to learn from it, and most of all getting back on the bike and riding.
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dwayne screwed with this post 03-13-2013 at 10:39 AM
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:12 AM   #260
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Call me an ass if you like but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwayne View Post
Don't be an ass. I don't cover the clutch and brake at 12 mph on a pool table level trail. I don't cover them on the highway at all times (like the noted exceptions above), but I do pick my moments to do those things carefully. An exposed trail is not that time. Traffic is not that time. Dusk on the highway is not that time.


The OP was clearly riding into a technical section, and he knew it if he was up on the pegs. This is a time to cover and even put light pressure on the clutch BEFORE you start the section. Most off-road riders (enduro/Hare Scramble style), or any who had participated in any off road riding training classes would probably be slipping (or on the verge of slipping) the clutch through that entire step up. It is considered a basic skill in almost any off road curriculum because it is a very important technique. A very slight power adjustment could have saved the day (and you can do those best by slipping the clutch). I wouldn't say it absolutely would have, but when on a trail with that kind of exposure, you play every card in your hand.

I just did the UTBDR with a BMW F650GS Dakar at about 450lbs plus me. My left forearm was very sore due to all the clutch slipping I did.

More importantly I am glad the OP was OK, I'm glad he made the right decision to cut his trip when he did. I'm glad he is seriously evaluating this incident, and doing what he can to learn from it, and most of all getting back on the bike and riding.
when you state "100% of the time" I take it literally. State what you really mean. That's all, I think my point has been made.
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:11 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joefromsf View Post
...The primary lesson is that I need to ride more conservatively and not accept crashing as part of the game.
That was quite the adventure! (Glad you are okay.)

But crashing IS part of the off-road game. It's a contact sport.

In this case it would have been better to have "crashed" as in stopping on the trail and tipping over standing still after the bike got directionally skewed, rather than keep riding it out and as a result go over a cliff. You can't always save it, on a bigger bike that is also heavily loaded with baggage.

My bare 990 probably weighs in a similar range to your loaded 650. If a low-speed maneuver doesn't go as planned I hardly ever can save it and mostly don't even try. That slow, I'll just dump it right there and then my buddies can help me pick it up rather than to have to find me down a cliff!.

Ah well, hindsight is easy. And again, glad you are okay.
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:14 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
That was quite the adventure! (Glad you are okay.)

But crashing IS part of the off-road game. It's a contact sport.

In this case it would have been better to have "crashed" as in stopping on the trail and tipping over standing still after the bike got directionally skewed, rather than keep riding it out and as a result go over a cliff. You can't always save it, on a bigger bike that is also heavily loaded with baggage.

My bare 990 probably weighs in a similar range to your loaded 650. If a low-speed maneuver doesn't go as planned I hardly ever can save it and mostly don't even try. That slow, I'll just dump it right there and then my buddies can help me pick it up rather than to have to find me down a cliff!.

Ah well, hindsight is easy. And again, glad you are okay.
Yep, sometimes you just need to accept the little crash instead of the big one.
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Old 03-13-2013, 03:21 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joefromsf View Post
Unknown to me, someone I don't know started a thread here with my "unlisted" crash video. Since it's effectively now public, I have changed it to "public" on youtube and started my own Face Plant thread where I will also post the "rest of the story".

Back story: My buddy Kawtipper and I were halfway thru a 32 day ride on the Western TAT, both riding well set up DR650's. On day 18 we were riding up out of Eagle Canyon in central Utah when I had a very scary crash. I had my GoPro running at the time.

Here's the video. The actual crash is around the 5:00 mark. If you can you need to have the audio turned on, but be aware, it's NSFW. You can also increase the quality to watch it in HD.
Kudos to you for being a good sport and sharing the video. Glad your ok and that it turned out fine. That could have really been ugly.
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:30 PM   #264
Trane Francks
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Originally Posted by redog1 View Post
when you state "100% of the time" I take it literally. State what you really mean. That's all, I think my point has been made.
Yep. You're 100% literal, 100% of the time. I'm sure it must lead to some interesting disagreements:

A: "I always wear my seatbelt. ATGATT!"
B: "I call BS. You're telling me you wear your belt while taking a crap?"

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Old 03-13-2013, 06:45 PM   #265
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Wow, Joe, just found this thread. Saw the video elsewhere earlier but didn't realise it was you.

Glad your doing well. We met at the ADV Central Rallye when you were on your long ride about a few years back.

I should be heading out to DV at the end of March but I suppose you already said you're not going to make it.

I'll stand a pint for you!

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Old 03-13-2013, 07:21 PM   #266
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When you decide to go to Moab to finish it up, if I have the time and money, I may just want to join you if you want the company. Any chance to go to Moab is good. Although I'd do it on my KLX250S and not my DR650. :)

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Old 03-13-2013, 08:21 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
That was quite the adventure! (Glad you are okay.)

But crashing IS part of the off-road game. It's a contact sport.

In this case it would have been better to have "crashed" as in stopping on the trail and tipping over standing still after the bike got directionally skewed, rather than keep riding it out and as a result go over a cliff. You can't always save it, on a bigger bike that is also heavily loaded with baggage.

My bare 990 probably weighs in a similar range to your loaded 650. If a low-speed maneuver doesn't go as planned I hardly ever can save it and mostly don't even try. That slow, I'll just dump it right there and then my buddies can help me pick it up rather than to have to find me down a cliff!.

Ah well, hindsight is easy. And again, glad you are okay.
Thanks for the well wishes Vince, and back at you. Been following your thread and am glad you're enjoying some quality time.

Don't worry, I'm still expecting to take my lumps on some dumps, just trying to avoid the hospital visits.

Its been a strange week reliving the crash through this thread. My blood pressure has been up 10+ points all week. It will be interesting to see what happens when I get back out on the trails.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:27 PM   #268
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I've seen this video popping up on various forms over the last few days and finally my curiosity got the best of me. I watch the crash and think, "I hope he's alright." Then I finally look at the screen name and realize this is the really nice guy who bought my old DR650.

(<---- pic in avatar).

Glad it wasn't worse and hope everything healed up. From our discussion when you were loading the bike in your van, I know you'll be back on the trails soon. Hope the rebuild goes well.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:29 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by BobbySands View Post
Wow, Joe, just found this thread. Saw the video elsewhere earlier but didn't realise it was you.

Glad your doing well. We met at the ADV Central Rallye when you were on your long ride about a few years back.

I should be heading out to DV at the end of March but I suppose you already said you're not going to make it.

I'll stand a pint for you!
Hey BS. Yeah I remember meeting you at that rallye. Sorry I'm going to miss you and everyone else that's headed to DV this month. It's my favorite place to ride.

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Old 03-13-2013, 08:37 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by DogBoy View Post
I've seen this video popping up on various forms over the last few days and finally my curiosity got the best of me. I watch the crash and think, "I hope he's alright." Then I finally look at the screen name and realize this is the really nice guy who bought my old DR650.

(<---- pic in avatar).

Glad it wasn't worse and hope everything healed up. From our discussion when you were loading the bike in your van, I know you'll be back on the trails soon. Hope the rebuild goes well.
Thanks Steve. I promise to take better care of it in the future.
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