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Old 03-25-2013, 07:13 AM   #31
RxZ OP
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Just thought I would update this thread...

My little bro' passed! Actually, he did very well with having no points deducted on the final exam! The only problem he had was the same problem I kept having on the first day... Where in the world are the footrests?!?! Our bikes are more standard/sport bikes, so the pegs are straight down under our knees. Those Eliminators have the pegs WAY out in front. I don't know how many times I picked my feet up after starting, and then put them right back on the asphalt at 5 MPH+ Had it figured out by lunch on day one though.

Only one person failed the glass out of the 12 people. She was actually sent home after the 3rd or 4th drill on the range. Apparently, it was taking all of the instructor's time to teach her, and they were having to ignore everyone else. That and at the very beginning of the range exercizes they asked everyone to point to the shifter, and she grabbed the keys
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:55 AM   #32
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I think I'm going to skip this with my girlfriend and teach her myself. We have to pay about 200 to take the class and I think I remember it well enough. And I have a little booklet that basically has all the range exercises in them.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:13 AM   #33
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The class is mandatory in Texas if you want the "M" endorsement on your license. That varies by state however.
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:58 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Aj Mick View Post
No..... I have neither done a course nor read a book about how to ride.

My father took five minutes to show me how to start stop and change gear on a motorcycle when I was a kid, and left me to it. A few years later, a couple of weeks after I turned fifteen, in 1969, I got my full m/c licence after a road test that consisted of riding 150 metres up the road, doing a feet up U-turn, and returning to the testing officer, who was watching from the side of the road.

I have muddled along since then, covering several hundred thousand kilometres in about 15 different countries, with just one accident on the road, in 1976. I was not to blame for that one, but I realised that if I had been more aware of what was going on around me it could have been avoided.

Do all the courses you want; you will learn a bit for sure. You may even become the inter-course champion. But in the end surviving the mean streets comes down to awareness and common sense.
You MAY really have figured it all out by yourself. From your riding resume' I'd be willing to guess you're a pretty good self-taught and experienced (in the true sense) rider. There are a great many riders out there with the same attitude/belief who are most definitely NOT as good as they think they are, however.

I'm absolutely certain you would learn SOMETHING worthwhile and become a better rider by taking a course or getting some sort of additional instruction. Of the MSF offerings, I would recommend an ERC or ARC. In the US, there are also several good courses taught on the track but intended for street riders, and a handful of other, yet more advanced "roadcraft"-type courses.

I have spent a couple of weekends recently, learning to teach the ARC class. I learned a LOT about myself and my bike (although I have been riding for 32 years), and it was FUN! If you get the opportunity, don't pass it up.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:22 PM   #35
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Something I always like to ask in either the BRC or ERC I teach:

When was the last time you had to slam on your brakes in your car?

Most people don't remember exactly when, but they all remember that they've had to, maybe it was someone pulling out in front of them, or maybe someone turned unexpectedly in front of them, etc etc etc

While things like this (and emergency swerving) don't happen often, thankfully, they still happen even if we are on bikes.

So the point becomes that emergency braking and swerving on a bike is vastly different than it is with a car.

If you don't know how to do it, you are putting yourself in a precarious situation. Sure, you could ride for years and years and be lucky and not have to do either one...

then again, that could change tomorrow...
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:45 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by bumbeen View Post
I think I'm going to skip this with my girlfriend and teach her myself. We have to pay about 200 to take the class and I think I remember it well enough. And I have a little booklet that basically has all the range exercises in them.
I agree, my wife was going to do the BRC last year, but her schedule didn't work out. Now that she's been riding a while, we're gonna try to get her into an intermediate course. In South Carolina she'll leave with her endorsement.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:07 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by bumbeen View Post
I think I'm going to skip this with my girlfriend and teach her myself. We have to pay about 200 to take the class and I think I remember it well enough. And I have a little booklet that basically has all the range exercises in them.
Good luck with that! You'll be taking a better approach than most who sit someone on a bike, point out a few controls and then lean over and start the engine ... but not a lot better.
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:24 AM   #38
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Good luck with that! You'll be taking a better approach than most who sit someone on a bike, point out a few controls and then lean over and start the engine ... but not a lot better.
Yeah I'm trying to think of what bad habits I have and I am having trouble. I know to start her out with the whole duck walking thing and then the slow oval with the weave and the sharp right and left 90 degree turns. Then bust out the slow clutch friction zone work and more weaving add in the offset weave then hit up some regular cornering making her look with chin up etc. moving on to swerves and quick stop practice. Figure 8 box so on and so forth. If I recall that's pretty much the whole thing?? Oh and running over 2x4s.

At least she won't be starting with using all four fingers on the brake which I think was a mistake and she will understand countersteering from the start without having the ridercoaches nebulous instructions on how to turn the bike. It was ridiculous because I remember us setting up for the first turning exercise and we received no instruction on *how* to turn! They said just go around in a circle, I said how do you turn, they said let's not make this too cerebral. Wtf, there is a specific input required to make the bike go in a certain direction and you aren't going to tell me what it is. That part really got on my nerves.

That section in proficient motorcycling that shows a doubled risk increase of accidents if you're taught by friends or family sticks in the back of my mind but really don't have the 200 and I'm 99% sure I can teach her as good or better than the course itself does.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:23 AM   #39
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I think I'm going to skip this with my girlfriend and teach her myself. We have to pay about 200 to take the class and I think I remember it well enough. And I have a little booklet that basically has all the range exercises in them.
So I am thinking you do not like this girlfiend all that much? ^^^This^^^ is a bad idea. I have been riding my entire life and after some time on back and some of our riding buds were female, my wife wanted to dip her toe. She asked me and I flat told her no and pointed her to the nearest BRC. Sometimes you have to be a little firm to get someone to understand what you are telling them. I would rather this come from an instructor during a class, than from her husband that still enjoys sexual relations very much.

Just my $.02.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:53 AM   #40
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I think I'm going to skip this with my girlfriend and teach her myself. We have to pay about 200 to take the class and I think I remember it well enough. And I have a little booklet that basically has all the range exercises in them.
Brother, you are on the road to relationship strife. First, she's not gonna like being told what to do. It's gonna cause friction. You're not gonna like it, because she's not gonna listen. It's gonna cause friction. Let her be angry at some stanger. That alone is worth $200.

Now, what if she drops your bike? Who is gonna pay? What if she panics, pins the throttle, flies across the parking lot, crashes your bike into a car, and does a couple grand worth of damage to both vehicles? Imagine explaining to your insurance company how you let an unlicensed rider on your bike, but you'd like them to pay for the damages. Good luck with that.

What if she really fucks herseelf up. Who is gonna pay the hospital bills? Your relationship won't last through the ambulance ride. Then she'll be suing you because you let an unlicensed rider on your bike.

Several times a year we get women in the class whose husbands have tried to teach them how to ride. Typically it doesn't work. Sometimes they're still pissed at their husbands. Sometimes they still have road rash.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:23 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by bumbeen View Post
I think I'm going to skip this with my girlfriend and teach her myself. We have to pay about 200 to take the class and I think I remember it well enough. And I have a little booklet that basically has all the range exercises in them.
You've been given good advise by actual rider coaches here. Even though I don't like your foolish statements about clipping my bicycle handlebars with your vehicle in the other thread, listen to what the other inmates have told you here.

Why short change your girlfriends learning experience with "thinking you remember" what was taught. You'd feel pretty bad when after your girlfriend has an accident from poor teaching, you walk up to her and say "oh yeah, I forgot to tell you you shouldn't have done that". Get her signed up in a class.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:00 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by bumbeen View Post
Yeah I'm trying to think of what bad habits I have and I am having trouble. I know to start her out with the whole duck walking thing and then the slow oval with the weave and the sharp right and left 90 degree turns. Then bust out the slow clutch friction zone work and more weaving add in the offset weave then hit up some regular cornering making her look with chin up etc. moving on to swerves and quick stop practice. Figure 8 box so on and so forth. If I recall that's pretty much the whole thing?? Oh and running over 2x4s.

At least she won't be starting with using all four fingers on the brake which I think was a mistake and she will understand countersteering from the start without having the ridercoaches nebulous instructions on how to turn the bike. It was ridiculous because I remember us setting up for the first turning exercise and we received no instruction on *how* to turn! They said just go around in a circle, I said how do you turn, they said let's not make this too cerebral. Wtf, there is a specific input required to make the bike go in a certain direction and you aren't going to tell me what it is. That part really got on my nerves.

That section in proficient motorcycling that shows a doubled risk increase of accidents if you're taught by friends or family sticks in the back of my mind but really don't have the 200 and I'm 99% sure I can teach her as good or better than the course itself does.
It's not about the exercises, it's about the coaching. You have to know what to look for and how best to address it. Get it wrong in the first five minutes and the rest will be just wasting your time. Like I said - you MIGHT do better than the average "home" instruction but not much. I also agree that teaching a close friend or family member is more often than not a recipe for disaster.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:28 AM   #43
bumbeen
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Ok ok you guys have convinced me it is a bad idea. There's got to be a reason everyone here is telling me to not teach her, and I don't think I want to find out why first hand!
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:20 AM   #44
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Ok ok you guys have convinced me it is a bad idea. There's got to be a reason everyone here is telling me to not teach her, and I don't think I want to find out why first hand!
Well play sir.

Not saying it cannot be done, but there is a far higher probability that one, or both, of you will be pissed off at some point.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:41 PM   #45
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Not saying it cannot be done, but there is a far higher probability that one, or both, of you will be pissed off at some point.
When Spouse Unit wanted to learn to ride, I sent her to a class... and I AM a trained instructor. I wanted nothing to do with teaching her to ride, and that had nothing to do with worrying about other students perceiving favoritism.
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