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Old 03-16-2013, 08:05 AM   #1
boscat OP
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950 direction?

So I bought a 2004 950 that i knew was not running. The fellow told me he was riding and the motor started to really raddle like the cam tens let go. He took it to his local dealer and they quoted him in the thousands to fix and it would never be the same again. The price was right and the bike looks like new. The bike has sat about 5 years and thats when i came across it. It only has about 12 000 miles on it. Been reading on here lots so last night I pulled the plastics off and drained all fluids. And as suspected the filter was all wavey. The oil its self looked real good. Pulled the oil screen, nothing on it. Magnet on drain had a little, nothing abnormal. Antifreeze was about half up the rad and the cap looked gross, rubber seals al curled up and cracked up.

Here is my question. Did I get lucky? Simply change the pump seal and run it hoping the filter was water logged?

Or now that I have all the plastics off should i do a leak down, comp test and do the valve clearance, clean carb ect...

By the way I checked the VIN and the bike should of had the head Gsk/bolts update done to it but shows that its never been done.

I want to do the pump seal regardless so I am leaning towards doing the seal and try to run it with fresh oil just to see where I am at with the motor.

Thanks in advance
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:12 AM   #2
Orangecicle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boscat View Post
So I bought a 2004 950 that i knew was not running. The fellow told me he was riding and the motor started to really raddle like the cam tens let go. He took it to his local dealer and they quoted him in the thousands to fix and it would never be the same again. The price was right and the bike looks like new. The bike has sat about 5 years and thats when i came across it. It only has about 12 000 miles on it. Been reading on here lots so last night I pulled the plastics off and drained all fluids. And as suspected the filter was all wavey. The oil its self looked real good. Pulled the oil screen, nothing on it. Magnet on drain had a little, nothing abnormal. Antifreeze was about half up the rad and the cap looked gross, rubber seals al curled up and cracked up.

Here is my question. Did I get lucky? Simply change the pump seal and run it hoping the filter was water logged?

Or now that I have all the plastics off should i do a leak down, comp test and do the valve clearance, clean carb ect...

By the way I checked the VIN and the bike should of had the head Gsk/bolts update done to it but shows that its never been done.

I want to do the pump seal regardless so I am leaning towards doing the seal and try to run it with fresh oil just to see where I am at with the motor.

Thanks in advance
Tough question. If it were me, I'd go ahead and do a valve check. At the same time, I'd put the new head nuts and washers on per the TSB. When you do that, you'll have to pull the cam bridges off. If the bridges are scarred from running with a lack of oil pressure . . . hmmmmm. Not good. If the cam bridges look pretty good, put the new head washers/nuts on, get the valves in spec, and ride it. Cam chains are not going to go bad at 12K miles (generally). Excess chain noise was probably caused by a lack of pressure on the cam chain tensioners, and it's just going to be a question of how long the engine was starved of pressure. The cam bridges will show the worst of the wear. If the bridges are not "too" scarred up, I'd just fix the water pump (CJ Racer upgrade), put in a Scott's filter, and ride.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:28 PM   #3
dmn0507
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I agree with orangecicle.
Check cam bridges conditions before spending any money on that engine, if they look okay most probably the engine is good
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:59 AM   #4
boscat OP
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Tear down

Well i pulled most of it apart last night. The lobes look like new on the cams. The rear cyl specs where spot on but the front intakes where only sitting at about .003 so out a little. I did not pull the bridges yet as i dont have the service man yet. Want to wait till i have it as i could not make sense out of the marks on the end of the cam gears in relation to tdc.

Even after sitting for 5 years i was suprised at how much oil was still on all the gears and cams. I think things are going to look good. Or hoping I guess.

Anybody have any thoughts on the water pump shafts. KTM has updated all the shafts and seals. Would the one from CJ Designs still be a better set-up? Ktm parts are much easier to get for me thats all.

Might do a leak down on it when I get the manual just to make sure the head gsk are not leaking. I hope not but now would be the time to find out.
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:09 AM   #5
Katoom72
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https://dl.dropbox.com/u/103697227/front.xps
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/103697227/rear.xps
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/103697227/valveadjust.xps

No need to wait.
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Old 03-17-2013, 07:47 AM   #6
Orangecicle
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I have a fairly early bike, and my rear cylinder's cam markings were very, very faint. Finding TDC on that jug was challenging. What really helped was having the factory engine blocking bolt. If you have the factory part (rather than making your own), you know when you are in TDC because the bolt will fully seat into the block. If you are not perfectly on TDC, the bolt sticks out a little. The HOW has good guides on valve checks and pulling the cam bridges. Just remember that on the rear jug, look for the "X" marks that are on the lobe side of the cam gear (facing you as you turn the motor backwards). On the front, look for circle marks (on the outside facing you as you turn the motor). The lobes angle in toward the center of the jug on the rear on TDC, and lobes angle out away from the center of the jug on the front on TDC.

Do one jug at a time. Get close to TDC and then try to get your blocking bolt in place. If it won't go all the way, you are a little off. Only pull the cam bridges when you are on TDC. They will break otherwise. You need some special tools to get to some of the head nuts. The two on the outside of the cylinder are actually up under the top of the head, so you need some kind of an extension to get to them. KTM makes a special tool ($55 or so), but there are other ways to do it.

The real guide to oil starvation on the motor will be the cam bridges where the cam journals run. If they look like this:


then you have a problem. The rest of the engine may be fine, but there's no real way to fix that on the heads. the solution would be rebuilding the upper end with new head, IMHO.

Best of luck!
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:39 AM   #7
dogsslober
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Rotor

Be sure to check you stator rotor bolts
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:02 AM   #8
sstewart
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Rotor Bolts

What he said
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:06 AM   #9
pdxmotorhead
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A really good machinist could line bore the cam journals and put in shells to make up the cut.. But it depends on how much a new set of heads would cost.. If your in the bike right, could be worth it.. I know there is a set on Ebay right now..

Dave
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:57 AM   #10
boscat OP
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Will do that.

Thanks for all the input guys. I really do think my cams and heads are ok. Have seen my share of motors with seized cams, faulty followers and other things. The oil looked to good to have that going on. I will still check when I get a chance to head back to the shop. Will have the front bridge off any way to change clearances. Rear as well to change nuts n washers on that note

Think when I am done with the top end I will do the water pump seal, then tackle the bolts on the rotor. Then see if I can get some life out of it. Was happy to see the carbs where clean as could be. Wasn't sure what to expect since it had been sitting for five years.

I noticed that the bolts for the rotor do not change up from ktm. What was wrong with them? Are they just loosening up or acctually breaking?Also what loc-tite are most guys using when they are installing them?
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Old 03-17-2013, 12:14 PM   #11
Katoom72
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They come lose, eating up the stator.

Locktite 648 is adviced by KTM to keep them in place forever.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:16 PM   #12
hilukstrux
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H20 seal or leaky HG

If it were mine, I'd wanna know if the seal went bad or if the lack of head bolt torque at the factory has led to leaky head gasket(s). Do a pressure test on the water system AND a leakdown test before changing out the water pump shaft/seal. While performing the leakdown, pull the rad cap and have a listen for hissing air, indicating a breached head gasket. Pressurize the radiator with a radiator/cap pressure tester and listen at water pump impeller and then at the spark plug holes, the exhaust pipes and crackcase breathers. This should indicate where the leak is.

After 9k miles, my 2004 was pushing water out the overflow when I gave it the beans due to the combustion pressure. It needed the head bolt and washer TSB. My dealer, Scuderia is peach and did the job under warranty on a 6 year old bike. I got lucky and the leak hasn't returned (7k miles so far). If yours has leaked and let some water into the oil past the head gasket, the symptoms could look like a water pump seal.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:13 PM   #13
boscat OP
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Well I pulled off the bridges tonight. Happy to say it all looked good. Real good in fact. With all the advice given to me on here I think I know now what direction I am going to go.

Going to order new nuts and washers for the heads so that bulletin is done. Need a couple of shims to get the valves back in spec. Then re assemble cams/bridges and do the rest of the leak down test and rad test. Hopefully at that point i can just order the rest of my parts needed and not have to order any head gaskets. So far so good. But as with any project like this, if its to good to be true, well you know the rest.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:51 AM   #14
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While you have everything down remember to do a real flush of the cooling system to make sure no more casting sand in the radiator.

Else, congratz on the find and now get out put it together and ride it like you stole it...

Cheers,
Zappa
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