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Old 03-22-2013, 01:16 PM   #31
'05Train
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El Gato's got it right, simple physics dictates that they can't work as described given the dynamic input that happens when a tire rotates going down the road. And we haven't even started talking about how the inside of a tire is hardly smooth or even.

But by all means, take the word of the people who are making money selling them.
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:21 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '05Train View Post
El Gato's got it right, simple physics dictates that they can't work as described given the dynamic input that happens when a tire rotates going down the road. And we haven't even started talking about how the inside of a tire is hardly smooth or even.

But by all means, take the word of the people who are making money selling them.
Fair enough -- it makes no difference to me whether or not you can be convinced that they work.

Just curious -- how did you determine that using the beads caused a catastrophic failure of your wheel?
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:18 PM   #33
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I'm no physicist, but as I understand, when a tire is rotating concepts like "up and down" or "top and bottom" don't apply. Those are static positions. A rotating tire is dynamic. Centripetal force will attempt to distribute the beads around the tire. If there is a heavy spot on the tire, it will be generating a force that we feel as a vertical vibration when it contacts the road or is as far away from the contact patch as possible. And we feel this as a vibration when the force becomes strong enough. But the force is being applied continuously as the tire rotates through every 360 degree rotation. And the force increases as the tire spins faster. The beads will be shifted until they become opposite the heavy spot. As soon as there are enough beads to counteract the forces generated by the heavy spot, the remaining beads will distribute around the tire.

I have a couple personal experiences that have made me appreciate the beads:
New tires that had Dynabeads installed when they were mounted. Never felt a vibration. Until I felt the beads become dislodged when I hit a large bump at speed. There was a brief vibration that diminished quickly and within a second or so was back to a smooth ride. This has happened a couple times to me.

In an effort to show a friend how well the beads work, I had him ride my bike. He agreed that it rode smooth. Then I installed a 5 gram weight on the rear wheel and he rode it again. Still no noticeable vibration, yet it should have been vibrating. Either the beads were working as advertised or 5 grams is nothing at speed - I think we can all agree that isn't the case! He still wasn't convinced and won't install them on his bike. His choice.

My neighbour was having problems with the front tire on his GoldWing cupping, and he had a noticeable vibration at certain speeds. Despite rebalancing twice, he couldn't get the vibration to go away and the wear was increasing. He couldn't get the tire replaced due to the mileage he had put on it. He installed Dynabeads and the vibration was gone and the tire wear eventually smoothed out.

There will always be sceptics and those who choose other solutions. It is good to have options.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:44 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Yossarian™ View Post
Fair enough -- it makes no difference to me whether or not you can be convinced that they work.
Oh let's be clear, I'm convinced they don't work, and no one who understands basic physics will either. Given the dynamic loading and movement of the tire carcass itself, combined with the uneven surface of the inside of the tire, they simply can't work, no matter how much you'd like them to. Big kudos to their marketing team though.

It's telling that no OEM specs beads in their tires and no tire manufacturer recommends them. Take from that what you will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian™ View Post
Just curious -- how did you determine that using the beads caused a catastrophic failure of your wheel?
The rubber membrane-covered beads, and the lack of sealant on the wheel was what convinced me that they were the issue. The membrane was intact at the prior tire change, 2,000 or so miles before the incident. The membrane had held up with no breakdown at all for 12,000 miles prior to that.

Edited to add - I pulled the rear tire in order to get the beads out of there, and there was crud all over the beads back there. It was a matter of time until that one failed too.
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by '05Train View Post
Oh let's be clear, I'm convinced they don't work, and no one who understands basic physics will either. Given the dynamic loading and movement of the tire carcass itself, combined with the uneven surface of the inside of the tire, they simply can't work, no matter how much you'd like them to.

It's telling that no OEM specs beads in their tires and no tire manufacturer recommends them. Take from that what you will.
You should have stopped when you said you were convinced. You are entitled to your opinion. But everything after that was an insult. Just because you had a bad experience that you blame on the beads, and you obviously don't understand how they work, please don't try to tell everyone that it can't be. People used to believe that the Sun orbited the Earth, which was flat. And that heat was a liquid...

OEM's are also not a good example. We modify stock bikes because the OEM's don't build what we want. OEM's get a lot of input from tire manufacturers. And tire manufacturers are in the business of selling tires, so they are not unbiased either.

I have met a fleet maintenance manager for a sizeable trucking company, and he can document how a product similar to Dynabeads has reduced their long term operating expenses. They now install them in every tire of every truck and trailer in their fleet. Despite the fact that no truck, trailer or tire manufacturer endorses them. And he couldn't care less how they work, he just knows that they do. And as of when I spoke to him, they had not had a single incident that could be atributed to the product they use, after 10's of millions of miles in thousands of tires.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:31 PM   #36
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I imagine the people who bad mouth DB's do so out of ignorance and have never used them. Yet they are adamant DB's don't/can't work and that all of us who have used them and know they work are wrong. I have balanced tires for more years than I like to admit, both with traditional stick on wts and DB's. Without question the DB's work in my experience on probably 25 sets of tires (3 bikes). So, for us knowledgeable users of DB's,
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:40 PM   #37
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If they don't work, why do washing machines have a balancing ring attached to the basket? The balancing ring is a hollow plastic ring partially filled with water that is attached to the top of the basket. It's function is to keep the machine from walking across the floor during the spin cycle.

I bought a old GL500 last fall that had several weights attached to the front rim. I removed the weights and went for a ride, severe out of balance situation. I popped the bead and put in about 1.5 oz of airsoft BBs then took if for another ride, perfectly smooth.

They work and I'll put them in every new tire I buy.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:47 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugemoth View Post
If they don't work, why do washing machines have a balancing ring attached to the basket? The balancing ring is a hollow plastic ring partially filled with water that is attached to the top of the basket. It's function is to keep the machine from walking across the floor during the spin cycle.

I bought a old GL500 last fall that had several weights attached to the front rim. I removed the weights and went for a ride, severe out of balance situation. I popped the bead and put in about 1.5 oz of airsoft BBs then took if for another ride, perfectly smooth.

They work and I'll put them in every new tire I buy.
If your going to use a self balancing washing machine as an example you should answer or at least ask if the balancing media makes a difference. The washing machine uses a liquid and dynabeads are a solid.
Not trying troll but I would like to know if that is a factor ? and if its not why not just pour a non freezing liquid into the tire ?
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:52 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VStromTom View Post
I imagine the people who bad mouth DB's do so out of ignorance and have never used them. Yet they are adamant DB's don't/can't work and that all of us who have used them and know they work are wrong. I have balanced tires for more years than I like to admit, both with traditional stick on wts and DB's. Without question the DB's work in my experience on probably 25 sets of tires (3 bikes). So, for us knowledgeable users of DB's,
I've also never used copper bracelets to try to cure male pattern baldness, low energy, a poor golf swing or sea sickness, and yet I feel pretty confident in saying that they don't work.

I'll simply ask, if they do work as convincingly as you claim why is it that every attempt to prove they work by applying some form of scientific testing fails to see any benefit. No, I don't consider lots and lots of user reports, or "I put them in and the tires feel silky smooth" as any proof of anything. The plural of anecdote is not data.
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:06 PM   #40
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Liquid works but it can be messy and congeal. Google "liquid tire balance".

Quote:
Originally Posted by the kaz View Post
If your going to use a self balancing washing machine as an example you should answer or at least ask if the balancing media makes a difference. The washing machine uses a liquid and dynabeads are a solid.
Not trying troll but I would like to know if that is a factor ? and if its not why not just pour a non freezing liquid into the tire ?
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:54 PM   #41
'05Train
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Originally Posted by 16VGTIDave View Post
You should have stopped when you said you were convinced. You are entitled to your opinion. But everything after that was an insult. Just because you had a bad experience that you blame on the beads, and you obviously don't understand how they work, please don't try to tell everyone that it can't be. People used to believe that the Sun orbited the Earth, which was flat. And that heat was a liquid...
If telling someone they don't know what they're talking about is insulting, then so be it. They don't work. They can't work. You're proof that P.T. Barnum was right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 16VGTIDave View Post
OEM's are also not a good example. We modify stock bikes because the OEM's don't build what we want. OEM's get a lot of input from tire manufacturers. And tire manufacturers are in the business of selling tires, so they are not unbiased either.
Yes, because you and the people who have sold you something are certainly more knowledgable than the companies who designed your bike and your tires. Let's be clear, if DynaBeads worked, they'd save OEMs money on warranty claims and make for happier customers. They'd be all over it, especially since the beads are cheaper than weights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 16VGTIDave View Post
I have met a fleet maintenance manager for a sizeable trucking company, and he can document how a product similar to Dynabeads has reduced their long term operating expenses. They now install them in every tire of every truck and trailer in their fleet. Despite the fact that no truck, trailer or tire manufacturer endorses them. And he couldn't care less how they work, he just knows that they do. And as of when I spoke to him, they had not had a single incident that could be atributed to the product they use, after 10's of millions of miles in thousands of tires.
My sister's 3rd cousin's housekeeper's daughter's boyfriend once pleasured someone in a truck. That has about as much to do with this as your statement. We're not talking about truck tires, we're talking about motorcycle tires. Completely different thing.

Do yourself a favor, call some tire companies and see what they say. Do a little research and try to figure out why, if these beads are so awesome, they don't balance a tire on a balancing machine.

I have nothing to gain by dissuading you from using them, and my dick's big enough that I don't need to compensate by arguing on the internet. Ultimately it's your bike and you can do whatever the hell you want with it, but understand that there's no way that those beads can do what they're advertised to do, and if they did they would be used by OEMs and be recommended by tire manufacturers.

DynaBeads are as worthless as using Nitrogen to fill your tires.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:18 PM   #42
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Give yourself a good hour to read this http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.o.../1866/705.full then explain how dumping a bunch of ceramic beads into a tire is effective at doing anything more than liberating you of your money.

Dynamic balancing via mechanisms that are internal to the rotating mass require a shitload of math, precise machining, and a stationary, single speed, application (e.g. not tires being deflected along two planes of travel and subject to variations in rotational speed).
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Old 08-24-2013, 06:39 PM   #43
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Gee, still some controversy over these little beads.

According to their advocates, they should have taken over the world by now.
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Old 08-25-2013, 05:27 AM   #44
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There's this ad on ebay now, for SS beads. It states that the SS beads are better than the ceramic beads for several reasons given. The same seller also sells ceramic beads in another ad, so go figure. I still use them but felt compelled to give some of the above "non-believers" something to fume over...
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Old 08-25-2013, 04:38 PM   #45
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Well....

I have a Ural, tires only slightly round, totally way out of balance, they seem to work in it... Russian tars are tuff, stiff sidewalls ultra low performance, but 3 oz of beads in the front durn sure made a difference. I saw a UTube with a 2 liter soda bottle being spun with beads, looks like it worked there too.

That being said as a long time helicopter pilot that has endured many hot sweaty days tracking and BALANCING a main rotor system, it does defy some logic.


but it works.....

definitely

i think



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