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Old 08-26-2013, 06:47 AM   #46
MMasz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '05Train View Post
El Gato's got it right, simple physics dictates that they can't work as described given the dynamic input that happens when a tire rotates going down the road. And we haven't even started talking about how the inside of a tire is hardly smooth or even.

But by all means, take the word of the people who are making money selling them.
I think the onus is on you to prove that it does not work. I teach physics and can tell you that the centripetal force of a unbalanced rotating object will seek to equilibrate provided you have a fluid-type (i.e., able to reform) substance internally- liquids or dynabeads fit this. As was stated earlier, a washing machine will do this provided the laundry pieces are small enough to migrate to the periphery of the tub.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:07 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by MMasz View Post
I think the onus is on you to prove that it does not work. I teach physics and can tell you that the centripetal force of a unbalanced rotating object will seek to equilibrate provided you have a fluid-type (i.e., able to reform) substance internally- liquids or dynabeads fit this. As was stated earlier, a washing machine will do this provided the laundry pieces are small enough to migrate to the periphery of the tub.
This is laughable. The burden of proof is on the manufacturer to prove they *do* work... not on the consumer to prove a negative.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:21 AM   #48
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Dynabeads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMasz View Post
I teach physics and can tell you that the centripetal force of a unbalanced rotating object will seek to equilibrate provided you have a fluid-type (i.e., able to reform) substance internally- liquids or dynabeads fit this.
Oh no! Clouding the issue with facts, that simply won't do. The arrogantly ignorant won't accept that. You will be berated for your knowledge and ability to articulate it. Right now they are probably gathering wood in preparation of burning you on a cross for being a witch. How dare you disagree with their lack of understanding?

Those darn beads, only thing worse is the traveling shaman that comes to the village once a year to sell snake oil from the back of his wagon...

;)
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:36 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by El Gato View Post
This is laughable. The burden of proof is on the manufacturer to prove they *do* work... not on the consumer to prove a negative.
The laughable part is that you lack an understanding of physics. M post was based on the application of laws of physics which would have to be shown to be wrong. Can you do this or would you rather pontificate on why dynabeads "can't" work and provide a scientific reason why?

I do not use dynabeads so I have no skin in this, but the principle is scientifically sound.
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:55 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by MMasz View Post
The laughable part is that you lack an understanding of physics. M post was based on the application of laws of physics which would have to be shown to be wrong. Can you do this or would you rather pontificate on why dynabeads "can't" work and provide a scientific reason why?

I do not use dynabeads so I have no skin in this, but the principle is scientifically sound.
You're either a troll or work for Dynabeads. If you really teach Physics, you'd understand the difference between something with a rigid circumference spinning suspended on a fixed axis (washing machine) and something that has a contact patch that's constantly moving and deforming, thus dislodging the beads, all while also oscillating vertically due to road vibration, bumps, etc. This whole "it's Physics, stupid" argument is old, and it's not proof of anything. If you really teach Physics, then *prove* that it works (hint, Dynabeads has yet to be able to do this), rather than swinging your dick and expecting me to be impressed.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:47 AM   #51
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I don't know if dynabeads work worth a poo

But airsoft pellets do

So fuck you

I like a haiku too
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Old 08-26-2013, 10:42 AM   #52
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Two questions:

If Dynabeads work then have the OEMs not embraced the product if even for only the environmental stand point ?

If Dynabeads work then why has the racers not gone ape for it cause lets face it when it comes to racing any edge is worth the effort.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:14 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by the kaz View Post
If Dynabeads work then why has the racers not gone ape for it cause lets face it when it comes to racing any edge is worth the effort.
I don't give a damn about those beads but is it your main argument that if something isn't used by "racers", it surely doesn't work?
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:16 AM   #54
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I don't give a damn about those beads but is it your main argument that if something isn't used by "racers", it surely doesn't work?
NOPE but knowing some amateur racers I am assuming the big teams are the same in that they will go through great lengths to have any edge possible, thus the question of why are racers not using dynabeads ?
Its not a does it work question but more of a why are the "pros" not using them ? I actually would like to know why a giant race team like say Monster does use not them ?

There has to be a reason why they are not using them and promoting them ?
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:47 AM   #55
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If this is the best that the official website can come up with:

Quote:
How do they work?
The basic principle behind how Dyna beads work is based on Isaac Newton's First Law of Physics - The law of Inertia. It states that a body at rest will tend to stay at rest. When there is a heavy spot on a wheel/tire, it tends to make that spot move away from the center when the wheel spins. The Dyna beads are unrestrained inside of the tire, so they tend to stay at rest until the side of the tire opposite to the heavy spot comes along and pushes against them. Once in place against the lighter side of the tire, they balance out the heavy spot.
I gotta call it snake oil.

So, when the heavy side of the tire moves away from the center, the light side pushes against the dynabeads and they become "in place" against the lighter side? WTF does that have to do with Newton's 1st law? If dyna beads is trying to prove that their beads work, they'd be better off citing PFM than the laws of inertia.


Here's a law of inertia for you.

I=m*r^2

The amount of inertia increases as a square of the radius. Why would the beads move to the side of the tire closer to the center and with less moment of inertia?

If someone could explain that to me, I may be inclined to try them. But from a laws of physics stand point, I can't make sense of it.
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:01 AM   #56
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Those who believe that the burden of proof is on the skeptic to prove that Dynabeads do not work would do well to read a little bit about Russell's teapot.
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:08 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by the kaz View Post
NOPE but knowing some amateur racers I am assuming the big teams are the same in that they will go through great lengths to have any edge possible, thus the question of why are racers not using dynabeads ?
Its not a does it work question but more of a why are the "pros" not using them ? I actually would like to know why a giant race team like say Monster does use not them ?

There has to be a reason why they are not using them and promoting them ?
Because their tire sponsors won't let them? Because the manufacturers or distributors of DynaBeads aren't paying big bucks for sponsorships? Rules? What difference does it make? Motorsports and "the real world" are not even close to the same. "Similar" would be stretching the truth. With specially manufactured competition tire's life being measured in hours or a few hundred miles, what tires and balancing method they use is irrelevant to the guy commuting to work or riding across the country.
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:42 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by gravityisnotmyfriend View Post
they'd be better off citing PFM than the laws of inertia.
They would be better off claiming their manufacturing process include the use of Holy Water, or some other unproven mystical power. Then most skeptics would be obliged to have blind faith that their deity of choice had approved, regardless of their ignorance of how it works. Maybe the beads use "the Force" and the manufacturers have Yoda on retainer?

One doesn't HAVE to understand HOW something functions to know that it does. Heck, I don't understand HOW the electricity makes my computer operate, but I know that it does make it work. I know a fair bit about static and dynamic balancing from working in automotive and aviation fields. I was certified and paid to successfully dynamically balance really expensive stuff that many lives and a lot of profit depended on. I don't know enough to explain the physics of how the beads work, but that doesn't change the fact that that I run beads because they have worked for me and other that I know. That is all I NEED to know. Sure, I'd like to have a better understanding, but I'd rather be riding my smooth bike than sitting in a lecture hall learning physics...
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:02 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by 16VGTIDave View Post
They would be better off claiming their manufacturing process include the use of Holy Water, or some other unproven mystical power. Then most skeptics would be obliged to have blind faith that their deity of choice had approved, regardless of their ignorance of how it works. Maybe the beads use "the Force" and the manufacturers have Yoda on retainer?

One doesn't HAVE to understand HOW something functions to know that it does. Heck, I don't understand HOW the electricity makes my computer operate, but I know that it does make it work. I know a fair bit about static and dynamic balancing from working in automotive and aviation fields. I was certified and paid to successfully dynamically balance really expensive stuff that many lives and a lot of profit depended on. I don't know enough to explain the physics of how the beads work, but that doesn't change the fact that that I run beads because they have worked for me and other that I know. That is all I NEED to know. Sure, I'd like to have a better understanding, but I'd rather be riding my smooth bike than sitting in a lecture hall learning physics...
You don't see a fundamental difference between you not knowing how something works, and nobody knowing how something works? I agree with you that I don't need to know the science behind everything in my life, but I expect that someone understands it, can explain it, and can prove it.

Do you also believe in the effects of copper bracelets on improving libido, lowering golf scores, and curing lower back pain? If no, why not? After all, there are countless anecdotes from millions of satisfied customers professing their effectiveness for all of these maladies. Just because you don't understand the science behind how copper bracelets can make you a better golfer, surely you can't discount all the anecdotes, can you?
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:44 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by El Gato View Post
You don't see a fundamental difference between you not knowing how something works, and nobody knowing how something works? I agree with you that I don't need to know the science behind everything in my life, but I expect that someone understands it, can explain it, and can prove it.

Do you also believe in the effects of copper bracelets on improving libido, lowering golf scores, and curing lower back pain? If no, why not? After all, there are countless anecdotes from millions of satisfied customers professing their effectiveness for all of these maladies. Just because you don't understand the science behind how copper bracelets can make you a better golfer, surely you can't discount all the anecdotes, can you?
Maybe the correct person(s) haven't been paid to provide the answers? I don't know and it doesn't matter to me. I have dealt with numerous people who didn't/couldn't/wouldn't comprehend the difference between static and dynamic balancing as it applies to aviation, and refused to pay for dynamic prop balancing. Even though it has been proven to reduce maintenance costs and improve inflight comfort. It baffled me why these people refused to spend a couple hundred dollars, yet they complained about vibrations or having to replace thousands of $ of damaged avionics every 18 months. And one of their first arguments was how dynamic balancing wasn't recommended or endorsed by manufacturers. Followed by arguments of "the engine is balanced at the factory, so is the prop". And yet they had vibrations, felt or otherwise...

I used to wear a copper bracelet that had magnets in it. I didn't notice a difference so I stopped wearing it. A friend wears a Q-Ray bracelet and swears it is the best thing for his sex life. I say it is his 26 year old bride... Chinese medicine has many treatments that Western medicine can't rationalize. Doesn't make it any less effective for them. Placebo "pain relief" pills have made many feel better in clinical trials, sometimes even more than the actual medication.

I have my own anecdotal evidence that Dynabeads work, based on my own un-scientific testing. But I can't prove that they work. Certainly not to someone who is skeptical. And that doesn't bother me in the least. I do, however, get annoyed by those who insist that because they don't understand how the beads work, that the beads can't work. Or those who had a failure of some sort, and happened to using the beads at that time, so they believe the beads MUST have been the cause of the problem.
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