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Old 03-21-2013, 09:51 AM   #1
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not garage...basement problem

Making my brewery in the basement, I had to paint the bare block walls. There was some efflorescence which I wire brushed off and used Zinsser watertite paint. 3 coats. Guaran damn teed to stop water. well, some spots are blistering and the efflorescence if forming on the surface of the paint

Under the front porch, which is concrete, is another problem. The main foundation is block and in great shape. the foot above that is brick and in fair shape, but above ground. The same paint is peeling off all this, the brick is full of frost and the ceiling (poured concrete exposed to the air outside) has icicles.

Now, I can put some foam board or something up with glue, but I'm concerned it won't stop the water problem.

Thoughts? 1" foam board enough to insulate it and stop this?

The efflorescence in the main room of the brewery isn't that big of a deal I spose. mostly cosmetic. But the condensation/water leaks in the other room are a problem.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:11 AM   #2
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Where's the motorcycle in this ?
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:17 AM   #3
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Where's the motorcycle in this ?

there's a pair of forks down there
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:23 PM   #4
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Efflorescense, lots to do with compromised drainage around the foundation causing hydrostatic pressure. Sister did not really believe me, that is until the drains plugged and flooded the basement.

A few (lots) $$$$$ later and repaired perimeter drains and property drains, proper gutter drains extensions and no more efflorescense.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:48 PM   #5
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99% of all basement water problems start on the roof. Make sure your gutters and downspouts are clean. Also very important, make sure your downspout outlets are piped at least 20' away from the house.

Not. Kidding.

Unless you're going through a wet period of weather, it will take the ground about 2 weeks to dry out. Only after this time will the walls dry out, and you'll be able to properly coat the walls.

Also make sure your grading around the house is all sloping away. Any surface drainage that comes up to the house will run right down the foundation will dampen the basement.

The other 1% possibility is that you have a natural water seep near your basement. Short of digging it up (good luck with that) and piping it away, that's a tough problem.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:05 PM   #6
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there's alway digging around the house's perimeter and installing a french drain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_drain sloped away, or if that's not possible, then into a well and then pumped to someplace you don't mind being wet...but contrary to what the mfg says-you can't paint your way outa this sorta problem
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:36 AM   #7
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Good ressource there on drainage and controlling efflorescence:

http://www.buildingscience.com/index_html


Maybe too late you already painted but there are some products that claim to seal concrete and prevent efflorescence. I did a lot of searches on that for my sister, I don't think any of them will work if there are drainage problems so they are just that....claims.

Last house I rented sure had lots of that efflorescence....no wonder we were in an old gully/ravine. A few days of west coast rain and many of the neighbors were pumping. Only thing that saved us from that was the fact the main storm drain ran through our backyard and there was a grill there right into the storm drain.

I had never seen my sister's house when I diagnosed her problem. Only took a couple pics from here to see some of the problems. Too bad she did not believe me, sure got costly.

A cheap way to relieve some of them problems can be a sump pump installed lower than the slab, all depends. But I think most houses should have one of them anyway, that's a cheap "just in case" preventive measure that sure saved us a lot of aggravation at my dad's house when the old city drains would back up.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:56 AM   #8
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I have graded around 1/2 the house. Not possible elsewhere. The driveway butts up against the house, so in any sort of rain/melt water will run down the foundation. Not always a lot, but it's definitely there. The joint of the front and back porches also are surrounded by concrete, allowing water down there as well. This is especially troublesome at the back porch because two expansion joints in the concrete meet up at a corner of the porch and someone ran into it knocking the bottom blocks slightly askew. This allows water to come into the laundry room. I have some hydraulic cement to patch it on the inside, but it will still allow water to go somewhere
I have seen a flexible joint sealant that may take care of the joints around the porches. Everything I have tried so far failed after a short time.


There is a sump pump that had to be installed before I could buy the house and the pit does get water, so it works pretty well.
I will put a longer downspout on one corner of the house to drain farther down the hill. But I may have to elevate that a couple feet off the ground to get the slope right.



Most of these issues wouldnt even come up if the builder hadn't put rooms under the porches. On the upside, during winter ice isnt a problem on the porches.

Perhaps when daylight comes I will take a couple pics. It's kind of a weird setup.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:02 AM   #9
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I have "fixed" some of them joints filling them with expansion foam and topped that with good caulk. I hope it lasted for my friend.....I should go revisit him. He did not really have a choice for some reason there was a huge recess under the "gap" we would have had to put a lot of concrete in there if just to fill the void space.

Gutter extenders...some of mine at home are high up and tied to the trees. I should plant some posts someday. But that was a big part of the problem at my sister's place, huge roof dumping within a couple feet of the foundation.

After her "flood" she had to bring in the mini excavator, dig down to the perimeter drains and then they sent a camera in and found the blockage. Lucky for her it was away from the house and an easy fix.Rural property....all goes into the ditch. Also gave her a chance to inspect the foundation if just to see if the builder had sealed it when they put it under that very old house sometime in the 80s.It was sealed and good for her, redoing that can be very expensive.

At first and before the "flood" she installed a dehumidifier in the basement to help control the efflorescence. It helped or so she says but then all things broke loose a few months later.

In itself I don't think the efflorescence would harm the "brew", one of my friends also has a basement full of it altogeter with a lot of fermenting wines and they are always good, even right out of the carboys.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
99% of all basement water problems start on the roof. Make sure your gutters and downspouts are clean. Also very important, make sure your downspout outlets are piped at least 20' away from the house.

Not. Kidding.

Unless you're going through a wet period of weather, it will take the ground about 2 weeks to dry out. Only after this time will the walls dry out, and you'll be able to properly coat the walls.

Also make sure your grading around the house is all sloping away. Any surface drainage that comes up to the house will run right down the foundation will dampen the basement.

The other 1% possibility is that you have a natural water seep near your basement. Short of digging it up (good luck with that) and piping it away, that's a tough problem.

^^^^^^^
This...

Treat the cause, not the symptom. Get rid of the water before it gets to the foundation. In places where you have a slab you may be able to add some type of curb to direct the water away prior to the foundation wall.

Show us some pictures when you get a chance.

Mike
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:38 AM   #11
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Crappy pictures - cuz that's the only kind I take

back porch



The dark spot is where I kicked leaves aside, but you can see the brick that raises the step above the driveway, and how water will run down the expansion joints to that point, infiltrating the laundry room due to the step being slightly askew below ground level

Front porch area


The area of the block wall in the basement that is directly under the window is the spot showing some efflorescence. The rest of the area seems ok so far, but I'm sure it will gradually spread.
The porch, and the brick on the side of the porch, gets frosty and icicles. That may not happen as much if the door to that room wasn't closed (room is same dimension as the porch) but since so much cold comes in from that room the door stays shut.

rear driveway downspout



That reminds me, it's almost spring cleaning time

The concrete that butts up to the house was repoured before I moved in and has a reasonable grade away from the building.. That area of the basement sees water mostly when the downspout falls off. After moving in I ran into problems with water coming out of the wood hatch block (alum cover in front of the brown door), since it is 2' below the slab. I put a rim around the hole, and used hydraulic cement to line the hole and that solved that problem.

Room under the porch



All this was bare, wirebrushed and painted with the 'waterproof' paint 3 coats. Problem spots in the brick above the block were filled in with mortar.

I can't really build up the front corner of the house to insulate the brick due to the gas meter. I could dig it out some and add insulation on the outside up to the poured part of the porch if I could find something that looked ok with the house brick, then use 2" foam board or something inside.

While I like the idea of cool storage inside for brewing ingredients, if I had to I could put a louvered door in to allow some air in/out.
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Old 03-26-2013, 10:14 AM   #12
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Front porch area


The area of the block wall in the basement that is directly under the window is the spot showing some efflorescence. The rest of the area seems ok so far, but I'm sure it will gradually spread.
The porch, and the brick on the side of the porch, gets frosty and icicles. That may not happen as much if the door to that room wasn't closed (room is same dimension as the porch) but since so much cold comes in from that room the door stays shut.

rear driveway downspout

Ah. Now we're getting somewhere. Those downspouts look pretty mashed. In a heavy rainstorm, there's no way they're going to flow the amount of water they need to. So, they'll back up, and water will trickle out of every joint all the way back to the house. Mashed ends like that also get clogged really easily. Get new ones.

As for the concrete pads, wait until the next rain and look where the water runs. If it's all running back to the house, then that's a problem. But, it's not unsolvable. You may have to rent a concrete saw, or buy a cheapo circular saw, with a bunch of masonry blades. You'll tear a circular saw up pretty bad doing this job, so buy one to sacrifice and chalk it up to the cost of the job.

What you'll need to do is install a water drainage channel.

I had this one put in when my driveway was poured last fall.



See what the snowmelt isn't doing? Not getting to my house, that's what. My previous garage was built too low, and the driveway sloped toward it. Every time it rained, I'd get 3" of standing water in the garage.

So, I tore that POS down, and built a new one, the right way.

I've dealt with enough water issues. They can cause a lot more than just damp basement walls. They can grow mold in your house, and make the whole place feel damp and chilly. The water will also deteriorate your block given enough time. My last basement was in a 50 year old house, and the efflorescence over all that time was causing the block to deteriorate. I stopped it, but the walls weren't looking exactly fresh is spots. It takes decades, but the water will eventually destroy your foundation walls.

Since your walls are damp, I'm guessing your place was built in the early '60s or earlier. After that period, builders would typically coat the foundation with tar, and that helps a ton with keeping things dry.
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Old 03-26-2013, 08:21 PM   #13
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Downspouts will get reformed this weekend. They tend to get crushed a lot, especially the front one, when backing up my trailer. 7'ish wide driveway.

I like the idea of the trough, but dont really have a place to go with it. Especially odd with the concrete joints meeting at the step and being a little low.

The neighbors house is 2' from my driveway, and to run it down back is another 120' of driveway. Lot is 40x200, and after the garage is a fairly steep driveway down to the shed.

When all is dry I will blow out the joints and pour some epoxy down there. Otherwise mudjacking or replacing the slab is probably the only permanent solution.

For the joints by the garage and farther down though, I think adding trough instead of the expansion joints might keep the material from washing away under the slab. And I know a guy with a gas powered concrete saw
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:38 AM   #14
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You know that you can get "recoiling" downspouts. Don't know how well they work but you wouldn't keep mashing the Aluminium.

Looks like lots of choices on Amazon on a quick search:

http://www.amazon.com/Raindrain-46-I.../dp/B0000CBKK9

Mine at home are all made out of PVC water pipe from the gutters down and that includes the extenders. The white stuff and painted to match the house. The back porch ones don't even go to ground, straight off the gutters to the conveniently placed cherry trees.

When the gutters plug up from the leaves and they do that consistently here I have to clean them twice a year, amazing how much the splashback from the rain water hitting the ground wets the sides of the house. 3-4 feet up in heavy rain and then all drains down the walls where it shouldn't really go.

Nothing as scary as that house I looked at yesterday, concrete block foundation from the 60s,no gutters and slabs abutting the foundation with little drainage and part of the basement used as a grow-op until the tenant got kicked out. Molds Eh! Ouch....!
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