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Old 03-23-2013, 08:27 AM   #91
wiseblood OP
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Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
Like, how to give up their rights and freedoms easier, and how to be subjects, rather than citizens?



No thanks.

Live free or die...'Ring any bells? It should. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people have died young, and MILLIONS have risked dying young, and/or been physically and/or mentally debilitated so that you would have rights and freedoms to throw away. Thank you for taking their sacrifices so lightly. It serves as an example/reminder to the rest of us...what NOT to do, and how NOT to live our lives.
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Originally Posted by farmerstu View Post
thank you, this is so important,FREEDOM ISN'T FREE! it comes at a price,sometimes paid by soldiers,sometimes by the blood of innocents. to give it up cavalierly is an insult to those who have defended those freedoms.



Get a room, will ya? Your bromantic funk is stinking up the joint.


Riding without a helmet isn't really the same as living free of tyranny. Don't pat yourselves on the back and imagine that you're some sort of freedom fighters on the front line of all that is good.

You're just a couple twats on a motorcycle.




So, you have your opinion, and I have mine. Feel free to spend your unpaid time talking to whomever you want to talk to about whatever you want to talk about.

And, Kommando: Imagining that all of the world outside 'Merika is somehow unfree is just plain silly. You need to get out more. The only thing Europe has less of is chap-wearing pirates. :ymca

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Old 03-23-2013, 08:28 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post




That...

Irony, you haz it.
You're confusing typos with illiteracy.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:00 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by wiseblood View Post
Riding without a helmet isn't really the same as living free of tyranny.
Though freedom in choice of clothing is a guaranteed right as well as freedom from tyranny.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:07 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Though freedom in choice of clothing is a guaranteed right as well as freedom from tyranny.
So says my nine year old girl. She's big into freedom of clothing choice.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:30 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by wiseblood View Post


Your bromantic funk is stinking up the joint.
It is your inconsistency that is stinking things up. You support a Woman's right to choose but are against a Riders right to choose.
Are you for freedom and the right to choose or not? Make up your mind.
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:10 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
It is your inconsistency that is stinking things up. You support a Woman's right to choose but are against a Riders right to choose.
Are you for freedom and the right to choose or not? Make up your mind.
Operating a vehicle on taxpayer funded roadways is a privilege with all sorts of sanctions on personal choice. Not even remotely the same thing. You dont have the right to choose to be under the influence, not have insurance, not have a license, etc.

Now if your on private property and not taxpayer funded roadways, then have at it. Dont wear a helmet and drink a beer as you ride one handed. But dont conflate freedom of choice with privilege of use and giving up freedoms and such.

Personally I dont have a dog in this fight, helmet laws or no makes no differnce to me, but its important to understand the distinction between freedoms to which all people have a right and privileges granted by the state that are regulated and influenced by elected officials, citizens groups, lobbies etc.

In my experience the majority of people that talk of freedom as not being free and such are also the ones most likely to support policies and politicians (both rep and dem) that erode our freedoms.
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:39 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by farmerstu View Post
thank you, this is so important,FREEDOM ISN'T FREE! it comes at a price,sometimes paid by soldiers,sometimes by the blood of innocents. to give it up cavalierly is an insult to those who have defended those freedoms.
The people "cavalierly" giving up freedoms are those that sit idly by as congress passes the patriot act, or watchs as a president kills us citizens with drones bypassing writ of habeus corpus. These are acts of tyranny. Helmet laws not so much.
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:56 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by wizz View Post
The people "cavalierly" giving up freedoms are those that sit idly by as congress passes the patriot act, or watchs as a president kills us citizens with drones bypassing writ of habeus corpus. These are acts of tyranny. Helmet laws not so much.
agreed. but "little freedoms" matter also.
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:07 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by wizz View Post
Operating a vehicle on taxpayer funded roadways is a privilege with all sorts of sanctions on personal choice. Not even remotely the same thing. You dont have the right to choose to be under the influence, not have insurance, not have a license, etc.

Now if your on private property and not taxpayer funded roadways, then have at it. Dont wear a helmet and drink a beer as you ride one handed. But dont conflate freedom of choice with privilege of use and giving up freedoms and such.

Personally I dont have a dog in this fight, helmet laws or no makes no differnce to me, but its important to understand the distinction between freedoms to which all people have a right and privileges granted by the state that are regulated and influenced by elected officials, citizens groups, lobbies etc.

In my experience the majority of people that talk of freedom as not being free and such are also the ones most likely to support policies and politicians (both rep and dem) that erode our freedoms.

Well put...
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:29 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by wizz View Post
Now if your on private property and not taxpayer funded roadways, then have at it. Dont wear a helmet and drink a beer as you ride one handed.
So shooting yourself on privat ground is alright while a few feet away on public ground it should be outlawed? How stupid is that?

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its important to understand the distinction between freedoms to which all people have a right and privileges granted by the state
The state doesn't grant privileges, only freedoms.
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:07 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
Dead people don't take up bed space. Lidless riders die more often. Helmeted riders need hospitalization often. Try again.
thats just a cop out daky man

now read again answer the question

or don;t

show us what

do they use the riders body for body parts?

the smokers ruined most of his organs

??????
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:08 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by wizz View Post
You dont have the right to choose to be under the influence, not have insurance, not have a license, etc.
This is a clueless argument. Those laws are all in place to protect the other users of the road. Dictating to me that I have to wear a helmet has nothing to do with protecting you.
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:08 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
So shooting yourself on privat ground is alright while a few feet away on public ground it should be outlawed? How stupid is that?
how is that stupid? is what someone does on their property that doesnt endanger others not your definition of freedom of individual choice? To shoot yourself in a public place can most certainly put others at risk, dont really see how suicide on your own property is illegal (it is) other than the morality imposed by the state. so dont really see how that is stupid.


Quote:
The state doesn't grant privileges, only freedoms.
The state grants all kinds of things, a charter, permission, requests, permits, etc.
Maybe I should have stated the state grants permission for the privilege of using roads, permission to operate a vehicle(with all kinds of stipulations). Freedoms and rights are inalienable.
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wizz screwed with this post 03-23-2013 at 03:28 PM
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:17 PM   #104
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This is a clueless argument. Those laws are all in place to protect the other users of the road. Dictating to me that I have to wear a helmet has nothing to do with protecting you.
Here is a clue: seatbelts. Have nothing to do with protecting others and are of the same vein as helmet laws. Im sure airbags will be mandatory, like seatbelts, in all autos at some point.

I dont care if you wear a seatbelt, helmet or whatever, but enough people do that have influenced the legislative process to make these things mandatory. And these are not legislating freedoms but rather stipulations by which one is given permission to operate a vehicle on public roadways.
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:23 PM   #105
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Not being from USA and looking at this keep .....your laws of me...I have to ask something. It is ok to say that about helmet, yet everybody wears a seat belt.

Should it not be ones choice as well not to have a seat belt?

I do understand this type of behaviour but these kinds of talks get our younger comrades on the road to think ...coooll stupid helmet. Wearing a helmet is not only helping yourself it is also about giving an example to the new bikers how it should be done..

I am afraid to take this into the guns....
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