ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-23-2013, 04:37 PM   #106
dsy
Adventurer
 
dsy's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Toledo Ohio
Oddometer: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizz View Post
Here is a clue: seatbelts. Have nothing to do with protecting others and are of the same vein as helmet laws. Im sure airbags will be mandatory, like seatbelts, in all autos at some point.

I dont care if you wear a seatbelt, helmet or whatever, but enough people do that have influenced the legislative process to make these things mandatory. And these are not legislating freedoms but rather stipulations by which one is given permission to operate a vehicle on public roadways.
Then why is it not a nation wide law? Why do some states feel the need to impose the will of a few on everyone. Bloomberg comes to mind.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
__________________
2012 1200GSA
2007 JK Wrangler with diy hemi install
dsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 05:03 PM   #107
wizz
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: over yonder on the north coast of ca
Oddometer: 1,568
Seatbelt, DUI, helmet, insurance, are all legslated by the states, thats why. Same reason I cant put lights on a dirt bike and get a tag. Bloomberg is nothing compared to the legislative stranglehold of Alabama and Georgia I grew up in. Prohibition of alcohol in some counties, not a chance in hell of access to a medicinal plant, even some counties in Alabama you can get ticketed for drunk in public drinking a beer on your front porch. These "liberal nanny staters" are mild compared to the people running these states.
Our politicians whether dem or rep like to cite, ticket, fine and lock people up. Rhats why we have a higher pecentage of our population behind bars than any other developed nation and more than quite a few of what we would call the most despotic nations. And all those prople behind bars are not all criminals.
__________________
"These things are like intellectual viruses loose in the theater of discourse, and you can’t really argue with these people, because they don’t understand the rules of argument," Terence Mckenna
"An honest tune with a lingering lead has taken me this far"WSP
2006DucatiMultistrada620, 2013 KTM 350 exc-f
wizz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 05:32 PM   #108
Kommando
Grumpy Young Man
 
Kommando's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Spacecoaster FL
Oddometer: 7,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseblood View Post


Get a room, will ya? Your bromantic funk is stinking up the joint.


Riding without a helmet isn't really the same as living free of tyranny. Don't pat yourselves on the back and imagine that you're some sort of freedom fighters on the front line of all that is good.

You're just a couple twats on a motorcycle.

So, you have your opinion, and I have mine. Feel free to spend your unpaid time talking to whomever you want to talk to about whatever you want to talk about.

And, Kommando: Imagining that all of the world outside 'Merika is somehow unfree is just plain silly. You need to get out more. The only thing Europe has less of is chap-wearing pirates. :ymca

I'm not imagining, and I never said anything about ALL of the world outside of America. I also HAVE been out more. I've been out quite a bit, carrying an M60 and a 60-80lb pack for much of it, and watching others around me do the same or worse. I KNOW how people live under despotic regimes. I'd prefer not to, and I'd prefer not to have things in this country go so far that almost everybody feels the need to tote an M60 around so that we DON'T live under a despotic regime. Support FREEDOM of the individual citizen in this country. Support MORE freedom in this country than what we currently have. Individual safety can be left up to the individual, to decide for themselves. Anything less does a major disservice to the self-sacrificing people who have not had it as good as we have.

Take a world history class, if you still think freedoms of citizens should just be thrown away in ANY country.
Kommando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 05:45 PM   #109
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: OR
Oddometer: 19,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goran69 View Post
Not being from USA and looking at this keep .....your laws of me...I have to ask something. It is ok to say that about helmet, yet everybody wears a seat belt.

Should it not be ones choice as well not to have a seat belt?
....

Yes it should be a choice of the driver to wear seat belts... But MOST (Not ALL) states have Seat Belt laws.
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 06:02 PM   #110
Kommando
Grumpy Young Man
 
Kommando's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Spacecoaster FL
Oddometer: 7,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goran69 View Post
Not being from USA and looking at this keep .....your laws of me...I have to ask something. It is ok to say that about helmet, yet everybody wears a seat belt.

Should it not be one's choice as well not to have a seat belt?

I do understand this type of behaviour but these kinds of talks get our younger comrades on the road to think ...coooll stupid helmet. Wearing a helmet is not only helping yourself it is also about giving an example to the new bikers how it should be done..

I am afraid to take this into the guns....
Helmet laws, seatbelt laws...they're both an erosion of the freedom of choice.

I grew up in a state with no helmet law. Seatbelt laws didn't apply there yet either, when I started driving. I've been a user of both from the beginning. Several of my older family members STILL don't like to use seatbelts. I support their rebelliousness , even if I make them wear one in my cage so that I don't get a ticket. Most of the adults in my family were smokers too. I've avoided the habit.

I prefer to give the youth of today the example of living free to choose. I don't carry guns, but I support the 2A and I DO shoot. If I get drunk, high, stupid, and/or delusionally violent, little old ladies should be legally permitted to be able to defend themselves from somebody like me. I don't smoke, but I support a restaurant/bar owner's freedom to choose whether or not to allow smoking in their privately-owned establishment, as long as I reserve the freedom to choose not to go there. I don't have a cooch, but I support a woman's right to choose early on. I almost got arrested one night for walking on a public beach after 11PM...sober and fully clothed. Here, as long as I behave myself, I can sleep out under the stars if I care to, while my friends fish all night long...as it SHOULD be on a public beach.

If you're not old enough and/or well-traveled enough to know simple freedoms like this in your life, you need to get out and find places that are still a bit like this. They are disappearing quickly from most of the developed world.
Kommando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 06:11 PM   #111
Kommando
Grumpy Young Man
 
Kommando's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Spacecoaster FL
Oddometer: 7,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizz View Post
Operating a vehicle on taxpayer funded roadways is a privilege with all sorts of sanctions on personal choice. Not even remotely the same thing. You dont have the right to choose to be under the influence, not have insurance, not have a license, etc.

Now if your on private property and not taxpayer funded roadways, then have at it. Dont wear a helmet and drink a beer as you ride one handed. But dont conflate freedom of choice with privilege of use and giving up freedoms and such.

Personally I dont have a dog in this fight, helmet laws or no makes no differnce to me, but its important to understand the distinction between freedoms to which all people have a right and privileges granted by the state that are regulated and influenced by elected officials, citizens groups, lobbies etc.

In my experience the majority of people that talk of freedom as not being free and such are also the ones most likely to support policies and politicians (both rep and dem) that erode our freedoms.
Quit funding the roadways. I'm cool with that.



Kommando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 07:00 PM   #112
Reverend12
Well there it is..
 
Reverend12's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Maylene, Alabami
Oddometer: 1,435
I've lost two close friends due to them not wearing a helmet. They would both probably be alive today had they been wearing a helmet.
Reverend12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 09:24 PM   #113
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 50,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizz View Post
Operating a vehicle on taxpayer funded roadways is a privilege with all sorts of sanctions on personal choice. Not even remotely the same thing. You dont have the right to choose to be under the influence, not have insurance, not have a license, etc.

Now if your on private property and not taxpayer funded roadways, then have at it. Dont wear a helmet and drink a beer as you ride one handed. But dont conflate freedom of choice with privilege of use and giving up freedoms and such.

Personally I dont have a dog in this fight, helmet laws or no makes no differnce to me, but its important to understand the distinction between freedoms to which all people have a right and privileges granted by the state that are regulated and influenced by elected officials, citizens groups, lobbies etc.

In my experience the majority of people that talk of freedom as not being free and such are also the ones most likely to support policies and politicians (both rep and dem) that erode our freedoms.



Jim
JimVonBaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 09:27 PM   #114
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 50,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsy View Post
This is a clueless argument. Those laws are all in place to protect the other users of the road. Dictating to me that I have to wear a helmet has nothing to do with protecting you.
A case could easily be made for a lack of helmet/eye protection being a danger to others. Get hit in the eye with a stone and see how well you control the bike!

Lack of your control IS a danger to others!

Now, personally I think not wearing a helmet makes the rider a fool, but far be it for me to tell him he must. Then again, I think people should have the right to choose not to wear seat belts, but ALL 50 states disagree!

Jim
JimVonBaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 09:29 PM   #115
LowInSlo
Gnarly Adventurer
 
LowInSlo's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: SLO County, California
Oddometer: 175
Oh goody. A helmet law discussion. So. Awesome.

Please. Do go on.
__________________
(Paraphrased from memory) "You have eaten deeply at the table of knowledge, but still you are not nourished" - Amanda
LowInSlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 09:31 PM   #116
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 50,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowInSlo View Post
Oh goody. A helmet law discussion. So. Awesome.

Please. Do go on.
Thanks for your useful input! We are all dumber for reading it!

Jim
JimVonBaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 09:45 PM   #117
fuelish
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: Raleigh, NC
Oddometer: 732
The real solution is comprehensive training, testing, and evaluation before issuance of a license to operate a vehicle on a public road. Then, after all of the classroom and practical training (including study of accidents) if the operator chooses to not protect themselves, they are free to do so.
fuelish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2013, 10:32 PM   #118
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: OR
Oddometer: 19,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Now, personally I think not wearing a helmet makes the rider a fool, but far be it for me to tell him he must. Then again, I think people should have the right to choose not to wear seat belts, but ALL 50 states disagree!

Jim
+1 to all (but only 49 States require seat belts NH does not)
http://www.ncsl.org/Portals/1/ImageL...awsmap5-11.gif
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 12:04 AM   #119
Wraith Rider
Beastly Adventurer
 
Wraith Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Germany
Oddometer: 1,314
@Goran69
You can put your mind at rest. My little sister has started riding one and a half years ago at the age of 16. I'm completely honest when telling her about my views on riding safety. Means that when the mood strikes I don't use my helmet (though it's mandatory here) or other safety gear or I do speed. I'm also honest about the possible consequences and other than me she's the ATGATT type, but she accepts my way of life as well.
Everyone who is mature enough to operate a motorized vehicle is as well mature enough to decide if he wears safety gear (or a seat belt for that matter). "Giving an example" isn't of any importance between grown ups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizz View Post
how is that stupid? is what someone does on their property that doesnt endanger others not your definition of freedom of individual choice?
No, it isn't. That would be a quite restricted kind of "freedom". My definition of freedom of individual choice is that everyone may do everything he wants as long he doesn't restrict the freedoms of others by doing so no matter where he is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizz View Post
The state grants all kinds of things, a charter, permission, requests, permits, etc.
Maybe I should have stated the state grants permission for the privilege of using roads, permission to operate a vehicle(with all kinds of stipulations). Freedoms and rights are inalienable.
That's not correct. The freedom of using roads is inherent. As all freedoms are. The state grants all these freedoms. In some points the state restricts these freedoms. It's very important to understand, that it's not a privilege given to use your freedoms, it's a matter of course, while the restriction always is the exception.
__________________
"Why not stay in disguise all the time? You know, look like everyone else."
"Because we shouldn't have to."
Wraith Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 12:57 AM   #120
fallingoff
Banned
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: syd oz
Oddometer: 3,677
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
+1 to all (but only 49 States require seat belts NH does not)
http://www.ncsl.org/Portals/1/ImageL...awsmap5-11.gif
still can't answer the question can you daky man

lol
fallingoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014