ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-24-2013, 03:13 AM   #16
Jim Moore
Beastly Adventurer
 
Jim Moore's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Jax, FL
Oddometer: 12,391
What did the instructors recommend for her? If she was riding well and simply screwed something up on the test they may have told her to come back and take the test again. If she didn't quite have the hang of it and struggled the whole time they may have told her she would be better off starting again, or starting the second day again.

In defense of the instructors, they were probably doing the best they could with what they had. Riding for 12 hours in a day sucks, but it doesn't suck as bad as riding in a blizzard, or not finishing the course because you have to work on the make-up day.
__________________
Jim Moore
Jax, FL

Pay the lady, PirateJohn, you thieving piece of garbage.
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
Jim Moore is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 03:45 AM   #17
DC2wheels
Castle Anthrax troll
 
DC2wheels's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: N.H.
Oddometer: 2,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachgeo View Post
With all the nicety things being said I'll play devils advocate. This failure may be what later saves her life. She'll put more into the next course and test, thusly she'll be more attentive than others while riding, thusly...... she'll be a better motorcyclist
This.^^^^^


FWIW, 6 years ago when both our kids took the course, everyone passed.

They both told me that there were several that should have failed and were going to be a hazard on the road. So there is a lack of consistency here.
__________________
a few bikes in the barn

sugarhillctd on the
http://k11og.org/forum/index.php world-wide K bike forum

DC2wheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 04:37 AM   #18
Dorito
Dreamer and Doer
 
Dorito's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Maryland
Oddometer: 4,758
Plan B

1) Buy a small, non-intimating bike for her.. This not a ploy for you to get another bike, it is truly, a "her"bike. She needs to have buy in on the bike, and it needs to ergonomically fit her (not on her tippy toes) and low weight. This bike should honestly be badged a beginner bike. You probably won't own the bike forever, but the bike should be pleasant enough to grace your garage for a year or two until she decides she has outgrown it. Next buy some little cones, 15-20. Set them up at the local high school parking lot on the weekends, and just let her ride.

2) If all goes well with 1), then late summer back to MSF she goes. Look for one that has a published low student to instructor ratio:

Quote:
TRA 8300 Personalized Basic Rider Course - $350

Exactly the same course as the Basic Rider Course except that the class size is limited to six students. The ratio is 2 instructors to 6 students in the Personalized BRC, versus 2 instructors to a maximum of 12 students in the regular BRC. Some students are more comfortable in a smaller class size environment in which to learn.
http://www.csmd.edu/CommunityEducati...ng/Motorcycle/

This article might help too: How to get a girlfriend to ride a motorcycle: 7 tips for getting your girl to ride and love it, on her own bike
__________________
Nothing (ad)ventured, Nothing Gained
Everything you want is on the other side of fear.

Dorito screwed with this post 03-24-2013 at 05:14 AM Reason: added link
Dorito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 04:46 AM   #19
DIRTSCOOTER
Gnarly Adventurer
 
DIRTSCOOTER's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: South Lyon, mi
Oddometer: 112
Passing the class

Here in Michigan we have about a 70% pass rate thru out the season. I would find out what skills she was lacking, do a little work on them and have her go back and take the class over.

Most students that don't make it, have not bought in to the significance of turning your head and looking where you want to go, or have not been using their friction zone effectively, both are criticle riding skills.
__________________
Exercise your mind and motorcycle frequently.

2013 Triumph Trophy

'05 drz s/sm
DIRTSCOOTER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 05:16 AM   #20
jnclem
True Airhead
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Gunnison, CO.
Oddometer: 272
When I took the course last Fall, everyone passed, except one girl that crashed almost immediately, and was too shaken up to continue. She stayed and watched for the two days, and was then given special instruction on the instructors own time to prepare her to try again. We were told that it was unusual for the whole class to pass.

I almost failed. I'm 55 starting over after more than 30 years off the bike. Lots of off road bicycling, but no engine. The only "excuse" I had was that they overbooked the class, and had to bring in extra bikes. 6 people got nice little Honda dirt bikes, but three of us got similar size cruisers. I had never been on a stretched, feet forward, pig-handling bike like that. Sorry, I know some people like those things, but I hated it. Trying to do all the slow speed stuf on that thing as a total noob was horrible! Stand up over the "bump?" yeah, right!

I had traveled 200 miles, paid for a motel room in addition to the class, and if I would have failed, I would have been very disappointed, but I would have taken the course again. Cruiser or no cruiser, it showed me that I needed a lot more work on slow speed handling. I did fine on looking through corners etc., but I was weak on picking through cones in a parking lot.

I did pass and got my license. My first bike, arranged long before, is an '89 R 100 GS. Not a lightweight, but it is MUCH easier to handle at low speed than that cruiser was. Having my license, and being street legal, I took it immediately to a big local parking lot, and practiced low speed, starts and stops, friction zone etc., until I gained a lot of proficiency. Then I started tooling around neighborhoods in our small town on Sunday afternoons. No traffic, but lots of stop signs, starting out right hand turns, and so on. Finally, I felt I could start to ride to work, and hit the highway and trails.

My point is that almost failing that test opened my eyes to my weaknesses. If we had had to do a 12 hour day, I bet fatigue would have pushed me over the edge into failure, but I still would have had to acknowledge that sometimes you get really tired, and still have to perform, so back to the course. I hope they give her a free do over, and she can practice inbetween, but failing these tests just shows you that you need work-nothing to be ashamed of. Good on her for doing the course, pressing through the disappointment, and getting back on. I bet she passes wth flying colors on the next try.
jnclem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 07:19 AM   #21
txwanderer
Gnarly Adventurer
 
txwanderer's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Almost East Texas
Oddometer: 482
First, was it your idea for her to ride or hers? If not hers, then shame on you.

Second, It sounds like the instructors failed her. There should be no rush, although some feel that way, and there sould be a manageable class size with adequate coaches. There should have been a list of things to work on and then some pointers on how to work at it.

IMHO, unless spacifically noted, the riders should have some kind of saddle time. Walking into something you never have done and not having the calss set up for it is a double hit on her. Working a clutch on a car and a bike are very different.

All BRC courses aren't done equally and some are down right brutal. People get so used to having experienced riders, they sometime forget to work on nuts and bolts. (Instructor failure again)

There is also the fact that some people should not be on two wheels, no matter how badly they want to. Many of us forget how complicated riding a MC can be. Some are mnatural, some have enought time to forget the complexity, and some manage to stay alive just because it isn't time for them to go.

Don't dispair, but make sure it is something SHE wants to do. My pillion has many miles and years on the back andis a spectacular passenger. She also has no desire to grab the handlebars.

YMMV
txwanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 08:23 AM   #22
concours
WFO for 41 years
 
concours's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Kensington, NH USA
Oddometer: 5,074
Did SHE ASK TO LEARN to ride here own bike? The rule I live by is, I'll support the learning if they catch the bug and ask... I'd feel HORRIBLE if a family member did it because they thought I WANTED IT. Just curious
__________________
Too much is just barely enough.....
concours is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 09:03 AM   #23
jgbnm
Gnarly Adventurer
 
jgbnm's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Oddometer: 130
Take the class with her. Be there for support and to cheer her on, but not to be pushy and tell her what she needs to be doing or what she shouldn't do.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
jgbnm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 10:11 AM   #24
Matt 82
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Matt 82's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Falkirk, Scotland
Oddometer: 193
Well we certainly won't know if you pushed too hard as we aren't aware of how hard you pushed. If it was something that she didn't want to do and you pressured into it, then yes you're an ass. What I'm guessing is though is that she seemed keen but lacked confidence(?). It's often hard to judge the difference between a lack of belief in yourself that can be overcome with encouragement and a genuine concern that one hasn't had enough training to deal with what's ahead.

That said, my gut instinct tends to be, "if you need to ask, the answer is probably yes". I'm not judging you of course, as I'm not in possession of the facts.


Has she expressed an intention to do it again? If she hasn't, I wouldn't bring it up. If it's something she really wants to do, she'll likely realise it the next time the two of you are out on your bike and hopefully mention it then. Even if she has said she'll attempt it again, let her do it at her own pace.

Is it possible to get her on a bike away from a group of learners? The only female in a group isn't a particularly comfortable situation to be in for a lot of women. If a few of them have experience it's even worse as you feel you're holding people up (or the instructor moves on before you're ready).

I learned a lot (relatively) by going round in circles in a carpark on my dad's bike before sitting my CBT (compulsory basic training). Is it possible to use someone's bike in a secluded area or even for her to get one-to-one training by the instructor?
__________________
Scotland at 45mph- My ongoing travels around Scotland

My Flickr
Matt 82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 10:56 AM   #25
xcountry41
Adventurer
 
xcountry41's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: There's a Heaven in Alberta.
Oddometer: 61
Second try almost a given

In my experience unless you have followed the prescribed formula the man will find any excuse to fail a first timer no matter how competent the rider. in a lot of cases,but not all it's about knocking you down a peg. In my case I failed my first test despite the objective proof of a 35 year accident free cage record,excellent bike handling skills from 10 years of competitive motocross followed by 20 years as a mountain bike fanatic. I did not take the safety council course and apparently that's a gaurenteed failure. I failed for not cranking my 50 yr old neck a complete 90 deg. At uncontrolled intersections to prove I was indeed scanning for danger and for going slower than the posted limit in a residential area where the speed limit was not clearly posted so I deferred to a cautious playground zone speed.they did not accept any deviations no matter how understandable or justified. Passed it easily once I understood their game.
xcountry41 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 11:29 AM   #26
bwalsh
Beastly Adventurer
 
bwalsh's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Hell town
Oddometer: 10,552
Quote:
Originally Posted by xcountry41 View Post
In my experience unless you have followed the prescribed formula the man will find any excuse to fail a first timer no matter how competent the rider. in a lot of cases,but not all it's about knocking you down a peg. In my case I failed my first test despite the objective proof of a 35 year accident free cage record,excellent bike handling skills from 10 years of competitive motocross followed by 20 years as a mountain bike fanatic. I did not take the safety council course and apparently that's a gaurenteed failure. I failed for not cranking my 50 yr old neck a complete 90 deg. At uncontrolled intersections to prove I was indeed scanning for danger and for going slower than the posted limit in a residential area where the speed limit was not clearly posted so I deferred to a cautious playground zone speed.they did not accept any deviations no matter how understandable or justified. Passed it easily once I understood their game.
What BRC course takes you out on the road for your test? You are talking about two totally different things.
__________________
2004 XR650L / 2001 R1150GS
NWVA TAG NWVA TAG MAP RTE THREAD & IN LIST



bwalsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 01:34 PM   #27
e.t.
Certified User
 
e.t.'s Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta
Oddometer: 260
My wife took a rider class -same thing. Was rushed through the whole thing.

The bottom line is, I told her after the first day -you are going to figure out if this is for you or not...

To the OP - if she came home pissed and determined -she wants to ride

If she didn't -riding is not a priority.

In either case - get a small D/S and let her go play some at her own pace. You can't go wrong and you can resell easily if it winds up sitting.

my .02
e.t. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 04:51 PM   #28
AviatorTroy
Beastly Adventurer
 
AviatorTroy's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH/Stuart FL
Oddometer: 1,539
I'm enjoying this thread. I came home from a long business trip and wife shocked me by showing me her temp card which she event out and got while I was gone, complete surprise to me. Cool. So we went slowly, and every Saturday for a couple weeks I had her riding my old CB550 around the local school lot, and I think she took it around the block nice or twice.

I was pretty adamant that she take the course and learn from a real instructor, as is in aviation, it is always a terrible idea to take lessons from a family member, needs to be someone impartial. About this time my brother says he will take the class with her as he was just getting back into riding after a several year hiatus.

What a disaster. My wife is a perfectionist and when she took the class, the first day she came home and said she was having a real hard time with the manuverability and all that because she hates the cruiser riding position and all they had left were Rebel 250s. Asked my brother how she really was doing and he said he thought she was one of the top students but she was just being really hard on herself. I suggested she try to find out if they had any other bikes, and they did provide her with an XT250, which was of course to too tall. She dropped it about halfway through the second day, got pissed off, walked straight over to the parking lot, and left to go drink a couple beers. That's my girl!

Of course a few weeks later we found out she was pregnant and it "happened" a day or two before the class, so the moral of the story is don't ever, ever allow your SO to take the course while massive doses of hormones are coursing through their veins!
AviatorTroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 04:51 PM   #29
AzItLies
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Oddometer: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Muro View Post
She came home in tears. This was my idea. She's logged thousands of miles behind me but has never thrown a leg over the driver's seat - of any motorcycle. She drives a manual transmission so she understands the concept of clutch, gearshift, etc.

Since they are calling for a possible snowstorm later this weekend they had condensed the course into four hours on Friday evening and 12 hours on Saturday. She said she felt rushed and couldn't get the riding exercises down before they would move on to the next one.

She was the only woman in the class.

Did I push too hard? Is this not the place to learn to ride? I don't know because I never took it (shame on me). I got some basic proficiency in a farm field and then took rode through the cones at the DMV.
Let's clear some stuff up first everyone, this is really important:

1) This "12 hour day" should never have happened. The MSF BRC is 10 hours of range time over 2 days. The organization that did this has overstepped their bounds. The class should have been rescheduled.

From the MSF point of view, it basically comes down to exhaustion and fatigue, new riders are learning an awful lot of things that others take for granted. It's mentally draining.

So this is not the fault of the MSF. It's the fault of the individual Sponsor, it was their decision. If they had followed the MSF rules, it would not have happened.

2) If you want to scare this Sponsor to death, tell them you are going to call the MSF and tell them what they did. They could potentially have their license pulled. AKA: Out Of Business.

3) The BRC is designed so that "most" people can pass the class. But there are those that should take the "Introduction to Motorcycling" class first. The Intro classes are smaller and a great deal of time is spent on just the friction zone. It's a big help to those that are "uncertain" and "anxious".

But here's the rub: We really can't tell people they have to take the Intro class first, we don't know for sure ahead of time if someone is going to pass the BRC or not, no one knows that.

So if the individual doesn't want to pay the xtra for the Intro, even though they are very anxious... we still try to get them through the BRC... and most of the time we do.

Good Luck to your GF Carlo, I hope she gets this straightened out with the Sponsor. It's sad to hear of this happening, because sometimes it can wrongly convince someone they should quit.

It's not fun for any of us to have an experience like that and we end up down on ourselves and feeling badly.

Cheers
AzItLies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2013, 05:03 PM   #30
AviatorTroy
Beastly Adventurer
 
AviatorTroy's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH/Stuart FL
Oddometer: 1,539
I
AviatorTroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014