ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-02-2013, 06:33 AM   #1
slide OP
A nation in despair
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: NM, USA
Oddometer: 21,119
I had to lay 'er down

I had a friend of mine return to riding after a bit of a break. He had an old old 440 cc (?) Kwak of some sort years ago as an A.F. serviceman, but having greatly prospered lately, he decided nothing but an H-D would do. My initial comments that maybe he needs to get a 250 cc or at most, something like a KLR or Versys to return were shut down hard by him.

No, he needed that H-D to show his prosperity and his 'custom' style.

It took him maybe 3 months of pain before his body could tolerate more than 50 miles of that idiotic 'clamshell' riding position which H-D riders think is so cool. Oh, and in those 3 months he had maybe 8 slow speed falls including the classic where he went to pick the bike up and it over balanced so he ended up with it toppled onto the other side and him on top.

Figuring to bond with his now slightly ragged but still new H-D he embarked on a 200 mile trip which needed liberal doses of both aspirin and breaks to complete. After a bit of a struggle, he made it to a beach resort where the H-D's were on parade.

To fit in, he bought a shorty helmet and joined in the cruise for a day or two reveling his membership in this styling club. After a bit, worked called so he set off for the 200 miles homeward bound.

However, by this time, the fatigue had built up him him so his reflexes weren't what they should have been. Finding himself needing to stop fairly hard to avoid making a groove in a Yukon XL, he lost it and ended up under his bike which itself was under the Yukon XL.

He gave me a call while sitting in the ambulance and actually said, in a put on cowboy drawl, "I had to lay 'er down." Note, he did not say "lay it" or "lay her" but the real "lay 'er".

I need to ask this group. Is there an H-D school where these riders learn this phrase and the logic that they didn't really fall due to losing control of one's bike but instead heroically sacrificed himself and his bike to save the Yukon? Or what?

Anyway, I didn't let him get away with this and drilled into him what happened in the crash. I did he feel the rear swing out? He finally admited that he did feel that swing. I explained what caused him to crash (locked rear wheel released to high side him) and now he agrees that he didn't intentionally "lay 'er down" but lost control of his bike due to lack of ABS and poor riding technique.

Still, where does this crap come from? How many riders have crashed like this and then, instead of learning to brake and/or get an ABS bike, figure that they did the best they could by "laying 'er down".

Good grief.
__________________
Why be born again when you can just grow up?
slide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 06:41 AM   #2
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: OR
Oddometer: 19,503
Quote:
Originally Posted by slide View Post
I need to ask this group. Is there an H-D school where these riders learn this phrase and the logic that they didn't really fall due to losing control of one's bike but instead heroically sacrificed himself and his bike to save the Yukon? Or what?
You can find it here: http://advrider.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 06:50 AM   #3
H e a d N o r t h
(take the high road)
 
H e a d N o r t h's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Muskoka
Oddometer: 933
Some friend...
All you could do was draw his attention to the lie...

You see, they do that to absolve themselves of the responsibility of mishandling a riding situation.

The least you could do is let him have the delusion.

__________________
...when necessary, use words.

First Ride...EVER!
Jan. 1, 2012
H e a d N o r t h is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 06:54 AM   #4
slide OP
A nation in despair
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: NM, USA
Oddometer: 21,119
Yeah, that was what I was trying to do by forcing the analysis of his crash. He started out as if he were some sort of hero for having slid under the Yukon but by the time we'd finished with the deconstruction, he realized that he hadn't needed to crash if only he was a better rider.

Still, I have to wonder if he were of a different bent and instead of buying an unsuitable H-D, he'd bought an even less suitable Gixxer, if he'd used that *&#& phrase.
__________________
Why be born again when you can just grow up?
slide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 06:56 AM   #5
Tripl Nikl
Beastly Adventurer
 
Tripl Nikl's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Western Washington
Oddometer: 2,560
This weekend I had a doofus in a cute ute (yes, a female driver--stereotype reinforced) drop in reverse and immediately pull into my path of travel.

I would'a "layer down" my bike too.

Except I can flatfoot my DR650 and was able to not hit the cute ute nor "layer down" my bike.
Tripl Nikl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 07:49 AM   #6
El Pescador
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Spring, TX
Oddometer: 211
What model of Harley did he have? I think you can get ABS on any Dyna, Softail, or touring. Also, how old is he? 'Cause he sounds like a geriatric klutz.
El Pescador is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 07:56 AM   #7
slide OP
A nation in despair
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: NM, USA
Oddometer: 21,119
Hardly geriatric. It's called a 'Slick Back' or 'Switch Back' or something similar. He was rueful about the ABS when I explained how it would have prevented his rear wheel sliding which panicked him into a quick release which high sided him.

I suspect the rueful tone was based on his declining the option when offered. I can't be sure. I figured I'd pushed enough.
__________________
Why be born again when you can just grow up?
slide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 08:00 AM   #8
daveinva
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Location: Washington, D.C.
Oddometer: 544
My rule of thumb: never exit the bike unless the bike is exiting the Earth, e.g. you have permission to "lay 'er down" if within the next few feet you're about to plummet off the side of an alpine pass.

Otherwise, brake and/or maneuver like you're supposed to.
daveinva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 08:51 AM   #9
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 48,527
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinva View Post
My rule of thumb: never exit the bike unless the bike is exiting the Earth, e.g. you have permission to "lay 'er down" if within the next few feet you're about to plummet off the side of an alpine pass.

Otherwise, brake and/or maneuver like you're supposed to.
I'm with you on that!

Jim
JimVonBaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 08:57 AM   #10
bradluke0
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Tampa , Fl
Oddometer: 165
Hi all ! This is my favorite motorcycle "myth" . I always say " the last thing you want to do on a motorcycle is crash , so why would you do it on purpose" . I always get blank stares back .
bradluke0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 09:05 AM   #11
slide OP
A nation in despair
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: NM, USA
Oddometer: 21,119
The implication, and I get this only from H-D riders, is that laying 'er down is a form of emergency braking which, while it does work better than brakes, is a last resort.

That's what I had to work this fellow through - that he did NOT stop shorter for having crashed than he would have had he braked properly while remaining upright.
__________________
Why be born again when you can just grow up?
slide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 09:14 AM   #12
slartidbartfast
Love those blue pipes
 
slartidbartfast's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Southern Louisiana or Southern England or ...
Oddometer: 4,781
I call people out on it all the time:
"You mean you/he/she locked up the rear wheel and crashed? Why don't you just say so instead of using that tired old euphemism?" I've only ever had a couple of people insist it was a deliberate act, at which point I ask "How DO you do that?" They can never explain the "technique".
__________________
MSF Ridercoach IBA: 35353 95 R1100GSA, 93 GTS1000, 85 R80RT, 93 DR350/435, 99 RX125, 78 DT100
January 2010 New Zealand South Island ride
Summer 2009 UK to Alps ride
Summer 2008 UK End-to-End ride
slartidbartfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 09:15 AM   #13
KX50002
NooB, my ass
 
KX50002's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: NEPA
Oddometer: 1,547
Just be glad your buddy didn't use the front brake... He might've flown clear over the Yukon and landed in froont of it getting run over in the process.
The way I see it, it's a good thing he had the presence of mind and training to "lay 'er down". It probably saved his life!



__________________
SOTGMOTT Some Of The Gear Most Of The Time
KX50002 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 09:16 AM   #14
slide OP
A nation in despair
 
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: NM, USA
Oddometer: 21,119
Quote:
Originally Posted by KX50002 View Post
Just be glad your buddy didn't use the front brake... He might've flown clear over the Yukon and landed in froont of it getting run over in the process.
The way I see it, it's a good thing he had the presence of mind and training to "lay 'er down". It probably saved his life!



:
yeah, I can't believe mfgs still leave the front brake on bikes after all the mayhem they've created.
__________________
Why be born again when you can just grow up?
slide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2013, 09:55 AM   #15
High Country Herb
Adventure Connoiseur
 
High Country Herb's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Western Sierras
Oddometer: 6,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by KX50002 View Post
Just be glad your buddy didn't use the front brake... He might've flown clear over the Yukon and landed in froont of it getting run over in the process.
Naw, the front brakes aren't that good...

I had a close call where I almost laid 'er down. I was following too closely, and grabbed too much rear brake when I realized the flatbed truck in front of me was stopped. The rear kicked out about 8 inches before I could ease up on the back brake, and but the bike ('83 XL600) didn't high side when I regained traction. I stopped with just a few feet to spare, but it could have been ugly had I gone under the truck. With practice, I've gotten a lot better at panic braking.

I still prefer not to have ABS, since I don't trust it on steep dirt hills. I have had situations in my pickup where the brakes deactivate at the first loss of traction, resulting in a speedy trip down the boulders.
High Country Herb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014