ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Battle scooters
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-18-2013, 02:57 PM   #91
sealsam
Sam...I am.
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: seal beach, ca.
Oddometer: 1,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymorr View Post
...and about those BV 350's....

Congratulations tony, that is nice!
sealsam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 06:09 AM   #92
Dabears
Beastly Adventurer
 
Dabears's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Atlanta Burbs
Oddometer: 1,216
Dear Piaggio- America really loves the BV350. Could you please consider sending us some of the color combinations that you already are producing and selling elsewhere? Look at GogoGordy's- you sell practically this exact model. All you have to do is put them on the boat with the others. They will sell here. Trust me!
__________________
Dabears

2012 SYM HD200 Evo
2006 R1200GS
1980 Vespa P200E
Dabears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 05:04 PM   #93
JerryH
Vintage Rider
 
JerryH's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 5,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabears View Post
Dear Piaggio- America really loves the BV350. Could you please consider sending us some of the color combinations that you already are producing and selling elsewhere? Look at GogoGordy's- you sell practically this exact model. All you have to do is put them on the boat with the others. They will sell here. Trust me!

And while you're at it, please tell your dealers to stop ripping people off with their bogus charges. I am very interested in a BV350, even in it's current colors, IF I could get a fair deal. But I will not buy a $5600 scooter with a $2000 markup. Why don't you post the FULL cost of the scooter, minus govt fees, which vary from state to state, on you site, so someone can tell at a glance whether they are interested, without wasting their time with scamming dealers. If the scooter actually costs $7000, put that on your site, so someone like me can read it, and go on to the next model. What's with all the game playing?
__________________
I won't spend more on a bike than I think it's worth, but if it's a good deal, I don't seem to have a problem buying bikes I don't need.
2002 Vulcan 750, 2013 Royal Enfield B5
2001 XT225, 2009 Genuine Stella
1980 Puch moped
JerryH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 08:54 PM   #94
sealsam
Sam...I am.
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: seal beach, ca.
Oddometer: 1,646
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
And while you're at it, please tell your dealers to stop ripping people off with their bogus charges. I am very interested in a BV350, even in it's current colors, IF I could get a fair deal. But I will not buy a $5600 scooter with a $2000 markup. Why don't you post the FULL cost of the scooter, minus govt fees, which vary from state to state, on you site, so someone can tell at a glance whether they are interested, without wasting their time with scamming dealers. If the scooter actually costs $7000, put that on your site, so someone like me can read it, and go on to the next model. What's with all the game playing?
Dude, enough of this crap already!

Go to Jo Momma and air it out.
sealsam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2013, 09:49 PM   #95
gogogordy
Beastly Adventurer
 
gogogordy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Temecula, So. California
Oddometer: 1,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by samthg View Post
Dude, enough of this crap already!

Go to Jo Momma and air it out.

^^^^what he said^^^^
__________________
Isn't it past your bedtime?

gogogordy screwed with this post 06-21-2013 at 10:25 PM
gogogordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 01:10 AM   #96
klaviator
Beastly Adventurer
 
klaviator's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Oddometer: 5,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
And while you're at it, please tell your dealers to stop ripping people off with their bogus charges. I am very interested in a BV350, even in it's current colors, IF I could get a fair deal. But I will not buy a $5600 scooter with a $2000 markup. Why don't you post the FULL cost of the scooter, minus govt fees, which vary from state to state, on you site, so someone can tell at a glance whether they are interested, without wasting their time with scamming dealers. If the scooter actually costs $7000, put that on your site, so someone like me can read it, and go on to the next model. What's with all the game playing?
Dealers are trying to make a profit. If you know how to negotiate and are willing to shop around, you will be able to get a reasonable deal. Do you really expect the dealers to just give you their best deal with no effort on your part? That may be how Wal Mart works but when you buy a bike, car or house, expect to do some work to get the best deal. That's how the world works. You can just get pissed off or you can deal with it. Getting pissed off really won't get you very far. Posting your complaints on this site won't get you a better deal either.
__________________
I ride, Therefore I Am.



klaviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 08:08 AM   #97
gogogordy
Beastly Adventurer
 
gogogordy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Temecula, So. California
Oddometer: 1,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
Dealers are trying to make a profit. If you know how to negotiate and are willing to shop around, you will be able to get a reasonable deal. Do you really expect the dealers to just give you their best deal with no effort on your part? That may be how Wal Mart works but when you buy a bike, car or house, expect to do some work to get the best deal. That's how the world works. You can just get pissed off or you can deal with it. Getting pissed off really won't get you very far. Posting your complaints on this site won't get you a better deal either.

"Reasonable" is the operative word here.

Allow a dealer a "resonable" profit, and you can expect them to treat you as a valuable customer.

Negating their value to you and the clientele they serve by denying them a fair (reasonable) profit from which THEY can and should earn their living, and in turn spend their money in the community they serve is short-sighted and dare I say, un-American?

Un-capitalistic may be a better term....
__________________
Isn't it past your bedtime?
gogogordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 08:50 AM   #98
JerryH
Vintage Rider
 
JerryH's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 5,011
Since you mentioned Walmart, that is exactly how I feel you should be able to buy a bike. Walk in, the entire price, other than govt. fees is clearly marked on it, and you can decide at that point whether you are interested. If not, walk out. There is actually a scooter dealer here who does exactly that, even includes the taxes, because they know what they are. An OTD price tag is hanging on every scooter. Place is called Scooter Invasion in Tempe, AZ. I bought my Stella there. I believe Saturn used to do business that way as well, so it is not unheard of.

Having a reasonable MSRP with a ton of undisclosed add on fees is nothing but a ploy to get a potential customer into the dealership, where the dealer can use their considerable expertise to scam them.

How would you feel if you went into Walmart to buy a bicycle that cost $150, was clearly marked $150, and found there was a "hidden" $25 fee for assembling it? Don't know about you, but I'd be out of there real quick.

I know someone who used to be a sales manager at a Kawasaki dealership for several years. Bought several bikes there with no "fees" Dealers make a lot more money than most people seem to think. I was shown the proof on paper.

I am definitely a consumer advocate (no, not like Ralph Nader) so I will always take the consumers side over a business. I am a consumer, with money to spend, at an honest business. If a business cannot make a profit by being honest, then they need to go out of business.
__________________
I won't spend more on a bike than I think it's worth, but if it's a good deal, I don't seem to have a problem buying bikes I don't need.
2002 Vulcan 750, 2013 Royal Enfield B5
2001 XT225, 2009 Genuine Stella
1980 Puch moped
JerryH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 09:08 AM   #99
tonymorr
Malta,NY(Saratoga Spring)
 
tonymorr's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Malta, NY
Oddometer: 2,466
Saturday morning errands = definitely more fun on a scooter :-)
__________________
2013 Multistrada 1200ST - 2014 Honda CTX700
2011 Husaberg FE 390 - 2014 Honda Grom "Napoleon"
'07 Mutant Ninja II (sold)click for build report - 2008 Yamaha WR290R (sold-not sure why)
2013 Piaggio BV350 sold
tonymorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 09:16 AM   #100
tonymorr
Malta,NY(Saratoga Spring)
 
tonymorr's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Malta, NY
Oddometer: 2,466
Nothing like a scooter ride and a fluffernutter sandwich to make you feel a bit like a kid again :-)


Haha, spell check wants to fix fluffernutter. What do they know of fluffernutter's?


JerryH - Please don't comment on how fluffernutter's are somehow wrong and ruin them for me!
__________________
2013 Multistrada 1200ST - 2014 Honda CTX700
2011 Husaberg FE 390 - 2014 Honda Grom "Napoleon"
'07 Mutant Ninja II (sold)click for build report - 2008 Yamaha WR290R (sold-not sure why)
2013 Piaggio BV350 sold
tonymorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 04:42 PM   #101
gogogordy
Beastly Adventurer
 
gogogordy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Temecula, So. California
Oddometer: 1,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
Since you mentioned Walmart, that is exactly how I feel you should be able to buy a bike. Walk in, the entire price, other than govt. fees is clearly marked on it, and you can decide at that point whether you are interested. If not, walk out. There is actually a scooter dealer here who does exactly that, even includes the taxes, because they know what they are. An OTD price tag is hanging on every scooter. Place is called Scooter Invasion in Tempe, AZ. I bought my Stella there. I believe Saturn used to do business that way as well, so it is not unheard of.

Having a reasonable MSRP with a ton of undisclosed add on fees is nothing but a ploy to get a potential customer into the dealership, where the dealer can use their considerable expertise to scam them.

How would you feel if you went into Walmart to buy a bicycle that cost $150, was clearly marked $150, and found there was a "hidden" $25 fee for assembling it? Don't know about you, but I'd be out of there real quick.

I know someone who used to be a sales manager at a Kawasaki dealership for several years. Bought several bikes there with no "fees" Dealers make a lot more money than most people seem to think. I was shown the proof on paper.

I am definitely a consumer advocate (no, not like Ralph Nader) so I will always take the consumers side over a business. I am a consumer, with money to spend, at an honest business. If a business cannot make a profit by being honest, then they need to go out of business.

A hundred dollar bicycle, and a motor vehicle are two different stories, and youre attempting to call them one in the same. One is a major purchase....an actual asset while the other isn't.

(And by the way, Wal-Mart DOES charge to assemble....)

There's nothing dishonest about a business trying to make a profit and passing through fees they are obligated to pay or collect for government, and I think it's naive of you to think so and laughable that you so adamantly discount the dealer community's value to the consuming public, as well as the role they play in the distribution model we have in this society.

Fact is, EVERY major purchase has additional fees....from real estate, to vehicles.

Have you ever purchased a home? It isn't an OTD price. There's loan fees, taxes, escrow charges, appraisals, etc. Motor vehicles on a smaller scale are the same thing.

I guess if can't, or won't afford a certain vehicle then you need to move on and buying out of state through a resident and flipping it to you to avoid taxes is blatantly dishonest and puts you in the same place morality-wise as you claim dealers that ask for fee reimbursement are.
__________________
Isn't it past your bedtime?
gogogordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2013, 11:14 PM   #102
JerryH
Vintage Rider
 
JerryH's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 5,011
Walmart does not charge to assemble bicycles. Or if they do, it is included in the price. I have bought 4 bicycles from Walmart in the past 4 years, and paid the marked price, plus our ridiculous 10% sales tax. Nothing else.

Obviously dealers must collect sales tax, title and registration fees when they sell a bike, or a car, etc. But those fees are set by the govt, not by the dealer. I'm talking about the "additional dealer markup" fees they add on, and stuff in their pockets, after making a fair profit by selling at MSRP.

I am shopping for a new car, though actually buying one is at least a year away. I have called several dealers that have what I am looking for on their lot, with the price already shown on their website. I've called 7 or 8 of them, told them it would be a cash deal, and asked for the total price to drive away in it. Not once have I had an issue in getting that price. Yes, when you actually go in to buy they will try to sell you worthless crap like carpeted floor mats, upholstery protectant, paint protectant, extended warranties, etc. All you have to do is give them a firm NO on all of it. Or better yet, just get the exact price before going in, and take in a cashiers check for that amount.

The difference is, car dealers are under a microscope. Everything they do or will try to do is well known for those that have done their homework. If there are rebates or factory to dealer incentives on the model you want, you need to know about it. Also, actual invoice prices (what the dealer paid) are public knowledge, so you know what kind of profit they are making.

The "powersports" industry is shrouded in secrecy, and most of the information people need to know when buying a car is not available. And in most cases they refuse to disclose all the "fees" up front. They keep adding things as they go along.


I have bought 2 houses. Yes there are a lot of fees involved, including the infamous "points" system. The last house I bought was nearly 20 years ago, but all the fees were stated up front. The mortgage company did try to screw me over by raising the interest rate above what it was already locked in at, but I told them no way, it stays as agreed, or the deal is off.


As far as scamming the govt., I find that laughable. If the govt. paid me back everything they owe me, I could retire a wealthy man. This just happens to be a legal loophole, which I may or may not take advantage of depending on the situation at the time. People pay accountants and lawyers large amounts of money to find loopholes that will save them money. Don't think our president doesn't take advantage of as many of those as possible. It would be Un American not to.


Anybody here old enough to remember the TV show called Fight Back, with David Horowitz? That's what people need to do with these greedy powersports dealers. Expose all their dirty little secrets. Get everything out in the open, so consumers can be educated about what they are spending such a large amount of money on. Let everybody know where every dollar goes. If the dealers are playing fair, they shouldn't have a problem with that.


Last post on this. This is how I feel. Plain and simple. Tired of the games and scams. What I say is not likely to change anybody's mind, so it is pointless to continue with it. But the next time you buy a vehicle, especially a bike or other "powersports" vehicle, I'd look real closely at all those extra little numbers on there, and question every single one of them. Then maybe do a little research before actually signing anything.

Oh yeah, I happen to think the BV350 is a great scooter.
__________________
I won't spend more on a bike than I think it's worth, but if it's a good deal, I don't seem to have a problem buying bikes I don't need.
2002 Vulcan 750, 2013 Royal Enfield B5
2001 XT225, 2009 Genuine Stella
1980 Puch moped
JerryH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2013, 07:50 AM   #103
andoulli
CAJUN
 
andoulli's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Oddometer: 2,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
When a bike is sold at full MSRP, freight, prep, and doc fees are part of the dealers overhead. They should not cost you an extra $1000. That is just absurd. You are literally paying for the "privilege" of buying the bike. No wonder they are called "stealer dealers" That is nothing but legal theft. Some dealers don't have these charges. Most Kymco dealers for example.

AZ does have ridiculous sales tax and registration fees. Not much you can do about that.

Small scooters like the Honda Met are really bad. MSRP of under $2000. OTD price of over $3000. About a 35% markup.

I doubt there is any business more dishonest than "powersports" dealers. Not car dealers, insurance companies, hospitals, even lawyers.

I plan to buy a new car in about a year. I'm going to buy it in Oregon, which has no sales tax. I have relatives there. The car will be bought in their name, and they will then "sell" it to me when the paperwork comes through. I will buy it as a used car, and register it in AZ, where private sales have no sales tax. It's all perfectly legal, and will save me over $2000. It will be done at a time when I am going up there anyway.


I'm not rich, and cannot afford to just throw money away. And I just plain don't like being scammed.
This is one of the most absurd posts I have ever read. You clearly like living in Arizona, riding and driving on it's well maintained roads. I'm sure you appreciate the protection local police and firefighters provide. If you lost your job you could avail yourself of numerous local and state safety nets. What am I leaving out, oh probably a thousand other local and state government programs and agencies that make living in Arizona attractive to YOU! And yet you think the 10% sales tax is ridiculous? You justify this insanity by calling yourself a consumer advocate. Sir I know what a consumer advocate looks like, and you are not one. You simply want something for nothing, a free ride at the expense of others that pay their dues, and taxes. You are very good a confusing the issue, clearly been doing it for a long time. I know people like you, people that download free music, and have all kinds of justifications for why the artist has no right to your money. You know how to get the stuff you want without paying for it and you think that makes you smart. To many of us it makes you a jerk. Yeah, you are right and we are all wrong. I bet you say that to yourself a lot.
andoulli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2013, 11:41 AM   #104
misanthropic
Studly Adventurer
 
misanthropic's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Keller TX
Oddometer: 524
This is turning into CSM. This looks like a nice scooter. I'm new to scooters and am trying find one that fits me, I'm 6'2". I need to find one of these and check it out.
misanthropic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2013, 01:57 PM   #105
klaviator
Beastly Adventurer
 
klaviator's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Oddometer: 5,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by misanthropic View Post
This is turning into CSM. This looks like a nice scooter. I'm new to scooters and am trying find one that fits me, I'm 6'2". I need to find one of these and check it out.
I'm 6-2 and 34" inseam. I did a short test ride on one. I fit on it pretty well. I didn't ride it long enough to really see how comfortable the seat would be but that's something that can be fixed if it's a problem. If you are looking for a scooter around this size, the Kymco GT300i would be another scooter to consider.
__________________
I ride, Therefore I Am.



klaviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014