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Old 04-10-2013, 06:32 PM   #91
DirtyOldMan
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I saw a safety film at work once when a guy set himself on fire fueling his bike whilst astride it. I'm generally a devil may care free wheeling kind of guy but this guy's junk looked like one of those gas station hot dogs that had spent a couple days too long in the weenie spinner.
Motorcycling is inherently dangerous enough without us setting our dicks on fire.
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:09 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by DirtyOldMan View Post
Motorcycling is inherently dangerous enough without us setting our dicks on fire.


Now that is a sig line!

In fact, may I?
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:16 PM   #93
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Oh hell, for me a fill up is Marlboro time!



Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelB12 View Post
While you are fueling???


Now that would be absurd, wouldn't it?

Sorta like debating this non-issue.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:15 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by ozmoses View Post
Now that is a sig line!

In fact, may I?
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:33 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by scottrnelson View Post
I don't want to get into the on-the-bike vs off-the-bike argument, but I not only always get off of the bike, but I always take my helmet and gloves off as well when refueling.

One other thing to consider:

When I hadn't had the XR650L too long, I stopped at the gas station, put it in neutral on the sidestand and started filling it from the side away from the sidestand. While trying to get a good seal with the fuel nozzle to help prevent a little bit more unburned hydrocarbons from getting into our air, I managed to push forward just enough to roll the bike off of the sidestand. Since it was falling away from me it was pretty much impossible to stop it falling over, so there I was holding a gas nozzle and my bike was on its side dumping gas onto the ground from the open filler neck. I quickly put the nozzle back where it goes in the pump, went around the other side, discovered that fuel on concrete is not good for foot traction, found better footing, then picked the bike back up.

I was amazed how quickly the station attendant was able to shut the pump off and how quickly a mechanic over on the other side was out with a fire extinguisher (which wasn't needed). It's nice to know that those guys were paying attention. Once all was settled and the few ounces of gas was cleaned up, I went back to filling the tank.


Ever since then, I park the bike in gear whenever it's off - not just at gas stations, but always - and I always put in fuel from the left side so that if for any reason the bike doesn't stay on the stand it's easier to catch.

Say all you want about how your method is good enough and you've never had a problem but I had never had a problem either, for at least 40 years of filling up bikes - until I had a problem. So now I'm reducing the odds of having another problem filling a bike with gasoline by parking in gear, filling from the left side, and having my helmet and gloves off.
That is one hell of a story ... so do tell ... why put it in neutral?
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:59 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Thats all I'm saying really,watch what your doing,gas is flammable.
Gassing up is not the time to daydream or check out pussy in cars driving by. Fill the tank,watch the nozzle flow, don't blow such a simple thing.

But my Triumph takes on a good bit more gas when on the center stand so I do it that way and don't mind hopping off the bike.
I grew up in Colorado Springs and I heard of this on my last trip there.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...-pump-explodes

I always center stand the bike when fueling, mostly because I can get more gas in it. But even if I'm just getting a partial fill, I get the hell off the bike (always have) and stay real heads up.

I came across a gas station fire years ago on a trip. The place was still burning, everyone had gone home and it was deserted...burned out shell of a motor home in one of the bays. Someone didn't turn the pilot light off. I can jump and run a whole lot faster than I can start the bike and drive away. if I see someone smoking anywhere near me while fueling they get instructed in no uncertain terms to move away...not put it out, just get away. I've had to do it a few times and I have never gotten the slightest argument. I'm not the biggest guy but I can be real assertive. Some idiot screwing with my heartbeat brings it out...
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Old 04-11-2013, 05:57 AM   #97
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There is no evidence whatsoever that a wireless phone has ever caused ignition or explosion at a gas station anywhere in the world.
Source: http://www.ctia.org/media/press/body.cfm/prid/407
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:39 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by ozmoses View Post
Now that is a sig line!

In fact, may I?

I'd be honored.
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:40 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
Possible and unlikely - Agreed! Although I'd say very highly unlikely.

Sparks due to static - Absolutely! ...and due to static caused by getting back in to the car for your cell phone - Quite possibly.

Dropped phone - Where have you heard of this? Seems like a friend's sisters brother-in-law read where someone had heard a guy tell a guy .... etc. sort of an incident to me.
Nope. I'm certified for installing and maintaining electrical equipment in explosive atmospheres. Worked in natural gas storage plants, wheat silos ("grain elevators" for the 'Mericans), stock feed mills, fuel stations and the like plus I'm qualified for hot refueling helicopters with the state rural fire service.

Dropping a metal case phone onto concrete can cause enough of a spark to ignite a fuel/air mix under the right circumstances. Mobile phones in general are also NOT tested to make sure they can never create a spark. Disconnecting the battery under the right (wrong?) circumstances can also cause a small spark. You'd really have to be shit outta luck, but it's possible. The more likely cause is the young folks who build up a static charge sitting in the car then step neatly out without discharging between them, the car and the ground thanks to their rubber soled shoes and not touching the car body for any length of time. They then grab the bowser handle quickly and discharge the static build up between all three points on the tip of the bowser nozzle. Older folks who hang onto the doors as they get out of the car have everything nicely discharged so no spark.
Personally I get off a bike to refuel it, mostly in case I over fill and get fuel on myself. As for static, if you want to be paranoid, hang onto the bowser handle and some metal on your bike for a second or two with your bare hands before putting the nozzle into the filler. That's about all it takes to discharge everything safely. If you're REALLY paranoid you could always carry around and use a ground lead and connect your vehicle to a post or the bowser frame before you open your tank and grab the handle. I've never seen anyone do that away from aviation fueling, but if you feel you need to be that sure ...
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:24 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by D_A View Post
Nope. I'm certified for installing and maintaining electrical equipment in explosive atmospheres. Worked in natural gas storage plants, wheat silos ("grain elevators" for the 'Mericans), stock feed mills, fuel stations and the like plus I'm qualified for hot refueling helicopters with the state rural fire service.

Dropping a metal case phone onto concrete can cause enough of a spark to ignite a fuel/air mix under the right circumstances. Mobile phones in general are also NOT tested to make sure they can never create a spark. Disconnecting the battery under the right (wrong?) circumstances can also cause a small spark. You'd really have to be shit outta luck, but it's possible. The more likely cause is the young folks who build up a static charge sitting in the car then step neatly out without discharging between them, the car and the ground thanks to their rubber soled shoes and not touching the car body for any length of time. They then grab the bowser handle quickly and discharge the static build up between all three points on the tip of the bowser nozzle. Older folks who hang onto the doors as they get out of the car have everything nicely discharged so no spark.
Personally I get off a bike to refuel it, mostly in case I over fill and get fuel on myself. As for static, if you want to be paranoid, hang onto the bowser handle and some metal on your bike for a second or two with your bare hands before putting the nozzle into the filler. That's about all it takes to discharge everything safely. If you're REALLY paranoid you could always carry around and use a ground lead and connect your vehicle to a post or the bowser frame before you open your tank and grab the handle. I've never seen anyone do that away from aviation fueling, but if you feel you need to be that sure ...
Good explanation of the static issue. No examples of a dropped phone causing explosion though - you made it seem like you had some experience there. If it was a hypothetical example you should have said so. Might as well say dropped keys - more chance of causing a spark than a dropped phone - and real metal-cased phones are rare - would have to be steel too, not aluminium (even rarer)
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Old 04-15-2013, 05:55 PM   #101
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A lit cigarette dropped into a coffee can or puddle of gas...puts out the cigarette. Now lighting a cigarette with your face over that same can or puddle of gas, = face burn. Actual observations, but not burned face, at a fuelish young age. That is why I am not sure gas dripping on to a hot header will actually ignite?

Admittedly there have been enough good points raised that I am rethinking my stay on the bike habit. Though fuel igniting at the pump is not really a concern to me.
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:11 PM   #102
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A lit cigarette dropped into a coffee can or puddle of gas...puts out the cigarette. Now lighting a cigarette with your face over that same can or puddle of gas, = face burn. Actual observations, but not burned face, at a fuelish young age. That is why I am not sure gas dripping on to a hot header will actually ignite?

Admittedly there have been enough good points raised that I am rethinking my stay on the bike habit. Though fuel igniting at the pump is not really a concern to me.
The gas on the hot exhaust is a common airhead issue, the carbs often leak and drip right ion the hot exhaust, when stopped or when riding (tho' when riding it soaks your boot first) It doesn't ignite because it evaporates so fast that the heat absorbed by the evaporation puts it below it's autoignition temperature. You do get combustible vapors and if they don't dissipate you could have a problem.

Interesting link on the cigarette:

http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae1.cfm

More NFO:



Fuel Flash point Autoignition
temperature
Ethanol (70%) 16.6 C (61.9 F)[2] 363 C (685 F)[2]
Gasoline (petrol) −43 C (−45 F)[3] 280 C (536 F)[4]
Diesel >62 C (144 F) 210 C (410 F)
Jet fuel >60 C (140 F) 210 C (410 F)
Kerosene (paraffin) >3872 C (100162 F) 220 C (428 F)
Vegetable oil (canola) 327 C (621 F)
Biodiesel >130 C (266 F)
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:39 PM   #103
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Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I sit on the bike backwards while filling the rear rally tank on the KTM. Cause I am a risk taker baby....OOOOHHHHHHHH YYYYEEEEAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:43 PM   #104
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When I am just riding around town I will usually just ride up, swipe, fill, ride off. However I am 6'5" with a 38' inseam so I have no problem straddling the bike.

When I am on road trip I usually ride a full tank (~200 miles) then stop and take a break for food and drink (Even though I do use a hydration pack when riding). Plus it is fun to talk to the gas attendant and see how the area is and I've even been given on either road conditions or good roads to go explore that are in the same direction that I am traveling.


I have never had an issue of the gas spilling out as I usually keep a pretty close eye on it and have my mirrors setup to watch the majority of what is around me.

Reading this thread though has had some interesting thoughts pop up into my head.
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:28 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by duck View Post
Meh snopes isn't always the best source.

I'll will tell you that the whopping two watt transceivers in your cell phone aren't going to heat fuel vapor to flash point, at ~141 degrees F. That is 2 watts for GSM, CDMA is less by half.

Remember your bike? A Harely's running temp is 500 degress F, 400ish for oil burners, 200ish for water cooled.....in addition to exhausts that run from 450-700 degrees.
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