ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-22-2013, 05:10 AM   #76
Zerk
DILLIGAF
 
Zerk's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Straight jacket memories, and sedative highs
Oddometer: 3,204
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzItLies View Post
This is it...

This is the duh factor...

This explains it...

What in the Wide Wide World of Sports makes you think that 'laying her down' is a better option than scrubbing off speed (using the tires traction) ?

Do you think that 'laying her down', and thus continuing on at about the same speed u were at a second ago (because there's nothing slowing you now, yer on the fucking ground and sliding, metal on asphalt...) is NOT going to result in you slamming into the barrier and flying up into the air and over it?

The lesser the speed the better. Laying it down is the act of someone scared shitless.

Cheers
I am still here, and you weren't there. It wasn't much of decescion, you crank as hard as you can, and at some point your mind takes over.

But ya, I would rather be laying on the ground going 85, then hit a wall with my front tire going 85. To me this is a no brainer. There is a strong chance you will flip over that wall, when you are on top of the bike.

You are not going to shed to much more speed, in a foot. The world is n ot full of absolutes. I am not argueing for laying it down in general, just saying there are times when it may be better.

You would probably poop yourself and call me a liar, if I told you my jeans didn't go flying off me in a million pieces either.
__________________
Berserker
In my travelling heart, there's an urge to see

foreign lands and alien birds, hear stories that no ones heard-D.A.D.

Helmets are like rubbers, you know you should wear one, but its so much better when you don't-Me.
Zerk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 08:04 AM   #77
astrolump
Studly Adventurer
 
astrolump's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: S flatlandia
Oddometer: 612
this guy should have "laid her down"
im sure most of you have seen this but here it is anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BOOxl8jQhc

go to 05:00 min mark.

this would have been a good place to grab all the brakes and go down on the trail rather than the other option.

of course im not second guessing him in any way. i can totally see how this happens...but i sure hope if i was in the situation i would have the presence of mind to "lay her down" right when things got puckery and you find yourself perpendicular to the trail.
this video really hurts to watch btw.
and damn that DR can bounce.
__________________
HEY. did you see something fall off my bike? I mean other than me.

"They see me coming on my KLR......They hide their daughters and their PBR......
I'll take the beer,no time for girls......Got a date in the Forest, chasing squirrels. "
astrolump is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 12:15 PM   #78
Islesfan91
Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Oddometer: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerk View Post
What about when you are going to fast into a turn on divided interstate? Would you shed speed, until the point you are thrown over the concrete divider in to oncoming commuter traffic, or would you lay it down?
not planning ahead, taking stupid risks. Crash.
Islesfan91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 12:17 PM   #79
Islesfan91
Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Oddometer: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerk View Post
I am still here, and you weren't there. It wasn't much of decescion, you crank as hard as you can, and at some point your mind takes over.

But ya, I would rather be laying on the ground going 85, then hit a wall with my front tire going 85. To me this is a no brainer. There is a strong chance you will flip over that wall, when you are on top of the bike.

You are not going to shed to much more speed, in a foot. The world is n ot full of absolutes. I am not argueing for laying it down in general, just saying there are times when it may be better.

You would probably poop yourself and call me a liar, if I told you my jeans didn't go flying off me in a million pieces either.
how the hell did it not occur to you to slow down before you were a foot from a wall?

let's see, not setting up for a corner, going too fast, target fixation if you were heading for a wall. You shit the bed on this one. Laying it down isn't a solution, everything you failed to do before you crashed was the solution.
Islesfan91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 12:33 PM   #80
Wlfman
Beastly Adventurer
 
Wlfman's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: TN/AL
Oddometer: 1,288
Contrary to popular belief, there are instances where you have to 'lay er down'

Back in '99 I had such an instance where I deliberately put the bike down. On a 4-lane divided highway 55-60 mph. I was in the fast lane when the jackass beside me decided he just had to occupy the same space I was in. My only option was to go off road into the grass (early morning so grass was wet with dew). There was no shoulder at all and the grass sloped down away from the road. I had less than 50 feet to stop a bike on wet grass from 55-60 mph on a bike that had drum brakes on the rear or if not the other option was to fly off into a concrete culvert that was about a 25ft drop to the bottom. Needless to say, I chose to 'lay er down' in the grass and walked away with only a torn MCL in my left knee.
__________________
I ride not to add days to my life, but to add life to my days.

Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people who are doing it."
"Now and then it's good to pause in our pursuit of happiness and JUST BE HAPPY."
Wlfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 12:49 PM   #81
Islesfan91
Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Oddometer: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wlfman View Post
Contrary to popular belief, there are instances where you have to 'lay er down'

Back in '99 I had such an instance where I deliberately put the bike down. On a 4-lane divided highway 55-60 mph. I was in the fast lane when the jackass beside me decided he just had to occupy the same space I was in. My only option was to go off road into the grass (early morning so grass was wet with dew). There was no shoulder at all and the grass sloped down away from the road. I had less than 50 feet to stop a bike on wet grass from 55-60 mph on a bike that had drum brakes on the rear or if not the other option was to fly off into a concrete culvert that was about a 25ft drop to the bottom. Needless to say, I chose to 'lay er down' in the grass and walked away with only a torn MCL in my left knee.
could you have prevented it by not riding alongside him? Were you passing when it happened or was he passing you?
Islesfan91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 03:20 PM   #82
Wlfman
Beastly Adventurer
 
Wlfman's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: TN/AL
Oddometer: 1,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Islesfan91 View Post
could you have prevented it by not riding alongside him? Were you passing when it happened or was he passing you?
Rush hour traffic, cars ahead and behind as well as him beside. I was in no way in his blind-spot. Just an asshole that changed lanes without looking or signaling. All witnessed by the guy behind me that called the police with the assholes tag number and vehicle description. I ended up with a $25K insurance settlement on my knee plus the totaled bike. Thanks to the guy that witnessed and called it in, as the asshole never even slowed down much less stopped.
__________________
I ride not to add days to my life, but to add life to my days.

Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people who are doing it."
"Now and then it's good to pause in our pursuit of happiness and JUST BE HAPPY."
Wlfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 03:26 PM   #83
Islesfan91
Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Oddometer: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wlfman View Post
Rush hour traffic, cars ahead and behind as well as him beside. I was in no way in his blind-spot. Just an asshole that changed lanes without looking or signaling. All witnessed by the guy behind me that called the police with the assholes tag number and vehicle description. I ended up with a $25K insurance settlement on my knee plus the totaled bike. Thanks to the guy that witnessed and called it in, as the asshole never even slowed down much less stopped.

gotcha, that's a tough situation because you can't make space for yourself by speeding up and slowing down is going to enrage the people behind you. Probably why I hate people who don't shoulder check/signal and change lanes without warning. BTW, awesome that you got a witness!
Islesfan91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 05:58 AM   #84
Zerk
DILLIGAF
 
Zerk's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Straight jacket memories, and sedative highs
Oddometer: 3,204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Islesfan91 View Post
how the hell did it not occur to you to slow down before you were a foot from a wall?

l
Bikes do not stop on a dime. I was still going to fast by the time I ran out of room and was at the wall.

I wasn't familar with area. I passed a guy, and found myself in a sharp turn, started cranking and breaking. I think what happened is I just turned the wheel so hard it just fell over.

Going over the bars into 3 lanes of traffic, seems a bad idea to me. I wouldn't do it for the sake of argument, to prove some rigid rule.
__________________
Berserker
In my travelling heart, there's an urge to see

foreign lands and alien birds, hear stories that no ones heard-D.A.D.

Helmets are like rubbers, you know you should wear one, but its so much better when you don't-Me.
Zerk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 06:53 AM   #85
Islesfan91
Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Oddometer: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerk View Post
Bikes do not stop on a dime. I was still going to fast by the time I ran out of room and was at the wall.

I wasn't familar with area. I passed a guy, and found myself in a sharp turn, started cranking and breaking. I think what happened is I just turned the wheel so hard it just fell over.

Going over the bars into 3 lanes of traffic, seems a bad idea to me. I wouldn't do it for the sake of argument, to prove some rigid rule.
don't you understand that you're proving my point? You're not laying it down, you crashed. You overrode your sightlines and ability and then dumped the bike. This is a crash.

If anything, Wlfman's example is one I'd accept as being unable to plan for, stuck in rush hour traffic, at the mercy of an idiot driver who didn't look and cut him off. Your crash was caused by your own lack of foresight and recklessness, you didn't have to "lay it down", you crashed after a series of very bad decisions.
Islesfan91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 07:56 AM   #86
AzItLies
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Oddometer: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Islesfan91 View Post
don't you understand that you're proving my point? You're not laying it down, you crashed. You overrode your sightlines and ability and then dumped the bike. This is a crash.

If anything, Wlfman's example is one I'd accept as being unable to plan for, stuck in rush hour traffic, at the mercy of an idiot driver who didn't look and cut him off. Your crash was caused by your own lack of foresight and recklessness, you didn't have to "lay it down", you crashed after a series of very bad decisions.
Well Said.

Kind of gave up on this thread, glad to see it's actually making progress.

When people talk about laying it down, it's when they have a choice, keep braking or fall down (supposedly) intentionally.

When we crash in a corner or slide on wet grass or oil on the road, there wasn't a choice, it was a crash, plain and simple.

Cheers
AzItLies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 01:22 PM   #87
Islesfan91
Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Oddometer: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzItLies View Post
Well Said.

Kind of gave up on this thread, glad to see it's actually making progress.

When people talk about laying it down, it's when they have a choice, keep braking or fall down (supposedly) intentionally.

When we crash in a corner or slide on wet grass or oil on the road, there wasn't a choice, it was a crash, plain and simple.

Cheers
the thing that's funny to me about this is that I consider myself a fairly new rider, been riding for a little over a year and a half and I have had one crash. I'm certainly not going to say I laid my bike down intentionally, I crashed the g'damn thing and wish I hadn't. Poor decision making and planning led to my crash, similar to a lot of the descriptons here from people using the same thing as an example of why they had to "lay it down"

I'm not suggesting I'm a better rider than anyone here, that's for damn sure, but because I crashed I've made a serious effort to make sure I'm making good decisions while on the new bike and that I don't put myself in that position again. I feel like those using the "lay it down" line are dismissing that their actions led to the crash and that it could have been prevented with better decision making.
Islesfan91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 03:20 PM   #88
Zerk
DILLIGAF
 
Zerk's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Straight jacket memories, and sedative highs
Oddometer: 3,204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Islesfan91 View Post
don't you understand that you're proving my point? You're not laying it down, you crashed. You overrode your sightlines and ability and then dumped the bike. This is a crash.

If anything, Wlfman's example is one I'd accept as being unable to plan for, stuck in rush hour traffic, at the mercy of an idiot driver who didn't look and cut him off. Your crash was caused by your own lack of foresight and recklessness, you didn't have to "lay it down", you crashed after a series of very bad decisions.
When looking at a wall, you crank your bars until the bike falls over, and at the same time you lean into the ground.

Still, would you argue it would be better to just keep braking until you hit the wall, and get thrown into three on coming lanes of traffic?


As for analyzing what a person did to get into bad situation, it is sort of a no shit thing. If we could all just make the right choices you would need ATGATT.
__________________
Berserker
In my travelling heart, there's an urge to see

foreign lands and alien birds, hear stories that no ones heard-D.A.D.

Helmets are like rubbers, you know you should wear one, but its so much better when you don't-Me.
Zerk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 07:07 AM   #89
AzItLies
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Oddometer: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerk View Post
When looking at a wall, you crank your bars until the bike falls over, and at the same time you lean into the ground.

Still, would you argue it would be better to just keep braking until you hit the wall, and get thrown into three on coming lanes of traffic?


As for analyzing what a person did to get into bad situation, it is sort of a no shit thing. If we could all just make the right choices you would need ATGATT.
You seem fixated on this one scenario. Try looking at the bigger picture; the saying 'Had to lay er down' is usually made fun of because generally, the majority of the time, the motorcyclist would be better off if they had continued braking instead of sliding on the ground.

If more motorcyclists practiced emergency braking, there would be a lot less 'had to lay er down' tales of woe.

It's no more complicated than that.

Cheers
AzItLies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 06:55 PM   #90
Zerk
DILLIGAF
 
Zerk's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Straight jacket memories, and sedative highs
Oddometer: 3,204
I am not disagreeing that in most cases you are better off braking. The title of the thread as if ever. People poop themselves getting so wound up rigid in beliefs. Big world out there.
__________________
Berserker
In my travelling heart, there's an urge to see

foreign lands and alien birds, hear stories that no ones heard-D.A.D.

Helmets are like rubbers, you know you should wear one, but its so much better when you don't-Me.
Zerk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014