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Old 04-24-2013, 07:08 PM   #91
glasswave
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One time...

I pulled in just behind the bridge
and laid her down, then frowned
"Gee my life's a funny thing, am I still too young?"
I kissed her then and there
She took my ring, took my babies
It took me hours, but took her nowhere
Heaven knows, she'd have taken anything, but....

All Right...
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:16 PM   #92
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Once, in the woods. I lost control while going over a wet, diagonally placed log, and the steering pointed to a stone wall. Not enough time or right terrain to steer or brake. Dumped it to the side and let the bike ride on my boot. We stopped a few feet short of the wall.
Lost a footpeg, but better than a head on with a stone wall and the trees behind it.
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Old 04-25-2013, 07:08 AM   #93
Islesfan91
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Originally Posted by Zerk View Post
I am not disagreeing that in most cases you are better off braking. The title of the thread as if ever. People poop themselves getting so wound up rigid in beliefs. Big world out there.
a lot of people use the phrase "had to lay it down" because they don't want to have to admit they fucked up and crashed. Big world indeed.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:37 AM   #94
VxZeroKnots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islesfan91 View Post
a lot of people use the phrase "had to lay it down" because they don't want to have to admit they fucked up and crashed. Big world indeed.
Said the newbie street rider.

Things are much different when we ride dirt. There I crash a lot, and am not afraid to admit it. I have two street low sides that I can recollect. Both had something to do with a sudden loss of traction in a corner, both certainly my fault.

When we leave the tarmac, or familiar roads, sometimes rocks, ruts, roots, and generally unpredictable surface conditions can cause the bike to do things completely by surprise and it is often preferable to "lay er' down" now than go into a barb wire fence or pile of rocks later. I'll choose the ground at a higher speed over pointy shit at a marginally lower speed any day. I have done so at an admittedly lesser rate than having just suddenly lost control or traction, but nonetheless. Before someone retorts with the too fast for conditions argument, I've seen a guy who has a decade long Baja career get seriously injured riding on mellow double track at a very relaxed pace going to the gas station; shit happens. These are dangerous machines, a captain safety attitude won't change that.

Sure we could spend our whole life riding at walking pace on familiar pavement covered in bubble wrap, but this is adventure rider not scared stupid safety rider; presumably we all have a limited amount of time to ride and some prefer to make miles. Traveling at any speed adds risk. Minimize those risks to an acceptable level and when shit goes pear shaped do what you think is best in the moment and try and learn from it.

Big world after all, and either way you're going to wind up dead.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:18 AM   #95
Islesfan91
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Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
Said the newbie street rider.

Things are much different when we ride dirt. There I crash a lot, and am not afraid to admit it. I have two street low sides that I can recollect. Both had something to do with a sudden loss of traction in a corner, both certainly my fault.

When we leave the tarmac, or familiar roads, sometimes rocks, ruts, roots, and generally unpredictable surface conditions can cause the bike to do things completely by surprise and it is often preferable to "lay er' down" now than go into a barb wire fence or pile of rocks later. I'll choose the ground at a higher speed over pointy shit at a marginally lower speed any day. I have done so at an admittedly lesser rate than having just suddenly lost control or traction, but nonetheless. Before someone retorts with the too fast for conditions argument, I've seen a guy who has a decade long Baja career get seriously injured riding on mellow double track at a very relaxed pace going to the gas station; shit happens. These are dangerous machines, a captain safety attitude won't change that.

Sure we could spend our whole life riding at walking pace on familiar pavement covered in bubble wrap, but this is adventure rider not scared stupid safety rider; presumably we all have a limited amount of time to ride and some prefer to make miles. Traveling at any speed adds risk. Minimize those risks to an acceptable level and when shit goes pear shaped do what you think is best in the moment and try and learn from it.

Big world after all, and either way you're going to wind up dead.
where have I mentioned riding offroad?

Quote:
We've been having fun with the stories we've all heard about "laying it down", and the notion of climbing on top and riding it to a halt.

But, have any of us ever actually done it? Intentionally laid a bike down while riding? I'm not talking about crashing and ended up laying on the ground, or having a bike squirt out from under you. I'm talking about deliberately laying a bike down onto the pavement?
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:46 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Islesfan91 View Post
where have I mentioned riding offroad?
Nowhere, that is the problem. Many of the same principles apply to the street, they just crop up less and are magnified less.

The fact remains that all the ATGATT and good decision making in the world won't prevent the unknown and sometimes you just gotta roll with the punches.

Riding dirt this becomes evident immediately, dirt riders (and probably anyone who has spent a appreciable amount of time on a race track) usually don't make a lot of the arguments that solely street riders, especially the MSF one-track-mind crowd, harp time and time again.

In other words lighten up francis, we all have a lot to learn.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:59 AM   #97
Islesfan91
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Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
Nowhere, that is the problem. Many of the same principles apply to the street, they just crop up less and are magnified less.

The fact remains that all the ATGATT and good decision making in the world won't prevent the unknown and sometimes you just gotta roll with the punches.

Riding dirt this becomes evident immediately, dirt riders (and probably anyone who has spent a appreciable amount of time on a race track) usually don't make a lot of the arguments that solely street riders, especially the MSF one-track-mind crowd, harp time and time again.

In other words lighten up francis, we all have a lot to learn.
thread was focused on street, my comment was made about street riding and the situations I've commented on were not dirt riding. I stand by what I said, if someone's not looking at what caused them to get into that situation and using the phrase as an out as though they had no other options, they're dead wrong.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:26 AM   #98
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My point isn't dirt vs. street, it is:

What if they do use the phrase; ARE looking at what they can learn from the situation; did have options, and chose to put the bike down and came out relatively unscathed? When the rubber comes off the road it is a crash whether intentional or not, the only difference being discussed is what kind of crash it is. There are a few incidences of that in this thread, yet some keep twisting the statements of others to fit their myopic viewpoint. Yes, sometimes bad decisions are made and you get to the point where you have to choose between a shit sandwich and shit soup; any choice you make during an accident which allows you to live through it is a good one. Maybe not the BEST one, maybe not the one you make the next go round but it is good enough because it allows you to gain experience and make better choices next time.

No one here is advocating lay er' down any time all the time, but the OP didn't ask for that now did it? There is an old aviation adage, "Any landing you can walk away from is a good one." In the uncertain world or riding motorcycles you have to play the cards you are dealt, even if the last words you uttered were, "hit me."
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:00 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Islesfan91 View Post
thread was focused on street, my comment was made about street riding and the situations I've commented on were not dirt riding. I stand by what I said, if someone's not looking at what caused them to get into that situation and using the phrase as an out as though they had no other options, they're dead wrong.
Believe the OP didn't differentiate between street and dirt, just the times that people deliberately chose to place their moving motorcycle on the ground. Think he even clearly stated something about not the times you "wipe out" or fall over as a result of crashing. Pretty sure there were some posts from folk which clearly described times where they "laid er down", deliberately and intentionally.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:40 PM   #100
Islesfan91
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Believe the OP didn't differentiate between street and dirt, just the times that people deliberately chose to place their moving motorcycle on the ground. Think he even clearly stated something about not the times you "wipe out" or fall over as a result of crashing. Pretty sure there were some posts from folk which clearly described times where they "laid er down", deliberately and intentionally.
"had to lay it down" every time I've heard it used, means to the person saying it that they'd had no other choice or the other choice they had was going to result in a far worse outcome. Many of them stubbornly resist calling it a crash as well.

I can only comment on the street riding situations, but my point is that by the time you get to that situation where you're looking at a bad result either way, you've already made at least one if not several bad choices that caused you to reach that stage.

There are some situations you clearly can't plan for (wlfman's example is a good one) but when it starts off with "going too fast into a corner" then it's pretty obvious where the first bad decision was.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:46 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Islesfan91 View Post
I stand by what I said, if someone's not looking at what caused them to get into that situation .
Leave the bike in the garage.

I am pretty good about watching traffic, I travel alot for personnel and work. But shit does happen. I was in a serious car wreck, that I can't remember. Person swerved in my lane. I don't know if I tried to react or not. I kinda prefer interstates with divided highways, over state highways for the reason.
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:21 PM   #102
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You know what strikes me as odd...

It seems there's a group of riders, who ride very similar bikes, who are in the camp of "I had to lay her down"... and it's because "shit happens".

And there's also another group of riders, and they ride different bikes than the other group, but they don't subscribe to the "I had to lay her down" view...

Doesn't it seem highly unlikely that "shit happens" only to 1 group and not the other?

Splain that one Lucy?

Cheers

AzItLies screwed with this post 04-25-2013 at 09:01 PM Reason: clarity
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:08 AM   #103
VxZeroKnots
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Originally Posted by AzItLies View Post
You know what strikes me as odd...

It seems there's a group of riders, who ride very similar bikes, who are in the camp of "I had to lay her down"... and it's because "shit happens".

And there's also another group of riders, and they ride different bikes than the other group, but they don't subscribe to the "I had to lay her down" view...

Doesn't it seem highly unlikely that "shit happens" only to 1 group and not the other?

Splain that one Lucy?

Cheers
Yeah people with scratched up well used bikes that have seen some good sights and lots of difficult miles and go out and live life, and then those with squeaky clean bikes and gear who just tour on the easy stuff and probably live in one of the flyover states.

No one HAD to do anything, some have chosen to, the world isn't binary.
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:16 AM   #104
Islesfan91
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Originally Posted by AzItLies View Post
You know what strikes me as odd...

It seems there's a group of riders, who ride very similar bikes, who are in the camp of "I had to lay her down"... and it's because "shit happens".

And there's also another group of riders, and they ride different bikes than the other group, but they don't subscribe to the "I had to lay her down" view...

Doesn't it seem highly unlikely that "shit happens" only to 1 group and not the other?

Splain that one Lucy?

Cheers
kinda sounds like one group has too big an ego to admit they made a mistake and crashed. People like to find fault with anyone other than themselves, hence the incredible number of silly lawsuits in the world today.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:08 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Islesfan91 View Post
kinda sounds like one group has too big an ego to admit they made a mistake and crashed. People like to find fault with anyone other than themselves, hence the incredible number of silly lawsuits in the world today.

Agree. Something I found out recently, others may already know but was a surprise to me;

A legal system based on Civil Law is much diff than ours which is based on Common Law.

From what I understand of it, Civil law systems take the view "you're an adult and thus responsible for your own stupidity" and they don't really allow frivolous lawsuits.

But in Common law systems, as we're familiar with in the States, anybody can sue anybody for virtually anything. Examples like the old woman that went through the drive thru and put the hot cup of coffee between her legs and it spilled, or the obese woman that tries on a thong that is many sizes too small for her and a clasp snaps off and hits her in the eye... wouldn't fly in a Civil Law legal system.

Cheers
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