ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Road warriors
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-10-2013, 10:36 AM   #76
JerryH
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 5,069
The Honda VLX600 kept its 4 speed transmission for it's entire 20 year production run, and did just fine with it, even at 600cc. More speeds just means more shifting. A 950cc v-twin should make enough torque to get by with only 3 speeds, definitely no more than 4. More speeds are like more disc brakes. Everybody wants them just because.
JerryH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 10:55 AM   #77
bonekrusher
big jerk
 
bonekrusher's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: UT
Oddometer: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
The Honda VLX600 kept its 4 speed transmission for it's entire 20 year production run, and did just fine with it, even at 600cc. More speeds just means more shifting. A 950cc v-twin should make enough torque to get by with only 3 speeds, definitely no more than 4. More speeds are like more disc brakes. Everybody wants them just because.
So you're saying they shouldn't change because they were worse in the past then they are now?

On long stretches of road I would like to be able to comfortably (for the engine) cruise at a higher speed than I can now.

More speeds doesn't just mean more shifting, it means a higher top speed and less engine work to maintain a given speed.
bonekrusher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 11:11 AM   #78
kaput13
Gnarly Adventurer
 
kaput13's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: South Florida
Oddometer: 485
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonekrusher View Post
So you're saying they shouldn't change because they were worse in the past then they are now?

On long stretches of road I would like to be able to comfortably (for the engine) cruise at a higher speed than I can now.

More speeds doesn't just mean more shifting, it means a higher top speed and less engine work to maintain a given speed.

Gotta love it. Six pages in and we already have a minor controversy. In most cases when manufacturers change to a six speed the top gear ratio remains the same or close. I doubt a sixth gear would help the acceleration of the bolt. None of us will know until someone actually rides the beast.
kaput13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 11:13 AM   #79
larryboy
Chopper Rider
 
larryboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: On a set of 50,000 mile tires.
Oddometer: 14,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonekrusher View Post
I have a zuk M50 and I think it needs a 6th gear pretty badly.

Guess I'd have to ride a Bolt to see if it's better but my guess is they're not that far apart tranny wise.



In 5th on my M50 I top out at 90 on a level surface, which is fine. I would like to be able to "cruise" at 80ish but the engine is just working too hard for me to leave it there for long stretches.

It probably can't pull another gear without more horsepower. My TE610 didn't like 6th, not enough HP.

The CHP said I shouldn't cruise at 80 anymore, so I don't...that was on the 950 Star...the engine loves to rev.
larryboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 11:20 AM   #80
kraven
Hegelian Scum
 
kraven's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Asheville NC
Oddometer: 4,783
Big difference is the the Bolt doesn't have the shaft drive. So, you can play with the belt cogs to make it a highway bike.

I've read there's a swap with the higher ratio of the C90 final drive for the c/m50, but don't know any real info about it.
__________________
So there I was walking into a biker bar in Chattanooga with liberty spikes on my head and a drag queen beside me... - bcurvin
kraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 11:23 AM   #81
JerryH
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 5,069
If it is a controversy I'm staying out of it. But rarely do more speeds mean a higher or lower overall gear range, just more speeds between top and bottom. VERY few bikes are actually undergeared. An '07 Ninja 250 is the only one I ever had that was, and then by only one tooth on the front sprocket. All motorcycle manufacturers employ a number of engineers, and they know what the proper gearing is for a particular bike/engine. Many people lower the gearing on small dual sports because they use them almost exclusively off road. I have never seen or heard of one that could pull a higher top gear than stock. And with the exception of the Ninja, I have never ridden a bike I thought needed a taller top gear. Best of luck with the "new" thread. It will be interesting to see how well this bike actually sells when it comes out. With all the accessories and available combinations, it looks like Yamaha is investing quite a lot in it.
JerryH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 11:32 AM   #82
OldF7Guy
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Oddometer: 312
Here is the deal with the 6th gear controversy. On my 1200 Sporty a 6th would have been nice at times at 75 mph. But, it only needed to drop a few hundred rpm because past that there was not enough power imo even on a 1200. Throw a passenger on the back and its a whole different ball game. Then, I was thankful it was not geared any higher. It needed everything it had not to struggle and load up. Loading up an engine is way way worse than letting it rev.

Long story short, bikes are already too expensive and adding another gear would just add too much $ for so little.
OldF7Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 11:38 AM   #83
kraven
Hegelian Scum
 
kraven's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Asheville NC
Oddometer: 4,783
You ain't seen nothing yet JerryH, according to the guys at Low and Mean (who did the custom 950 giveaway bike for Star previously).

They say that there are a lot of neato things in the works for the Bolt via Yamaha. I'm anxious to see if they can pull back from the whole "moar fiberglass on the choppah!!!" angle to actually pull off a bobber (which requires a different worldview, usually).

I guess time will tell. One thing is for sure, it's an exciting time to a motorcyclist. Lots of neat stuff on the market for this model year.
__________________
So there I was walking into a biker bar in Chattanooga with liberty spikes on my head and a drag queen beside me... - bcurvin
kraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 11:43 AM   #84
blk-betty
bam-a-lam
 
blk-betty's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Oddometer: 2,364
Can only speak about 6th on the bikes I now have or have had in the past.

The DR 650 does fine with 5 speeds and I can run 70-75 without feeling the need to upshift.

Had a few newer HDs (Sporty, Dyna, Softail and Bagger) and always was looking for a 6th gear when running above 70. At some point, thinking when they went from 88" to 96" in 2007 or 08 that all the big twins got a 6th gear and I love the 6th gear on my '12 Road Glide but it is a 103" so it has the tq to pull the load.

I really wish the XR1200 had a 6th gear. Living on the coast I have a 3-4 hour ride to get to the twisties and running interstate speeds at 75-85 puts the rpms around 4200-4500 which is 2/3rds of the max rpm. It runs fine at these higher speeds but sure would be nice to drop the rpms down 500 or so. Some have swapped pulleys to do so but this is always at the expense of losing some lower rpm grunt which is what makes the XR so much fun to ride.
__________________
Any day on a dirt road is a great day
blk-betty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 11:50 AM   #85
bonekrusher
big jerk
 
bonekrusher's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: UT
Oddometer: 53
There's no inflection or intonation over the internet, I'm not trying to be controversial or combative.

I'm just trying to figure out why 5 speed is the answer to the "what tranny" question for this bike.

Several of the posts above this one answer my question pretty good. I am not sure if my M50 would have the power to pull a 6 honestly but it feels held back by the 5.

I have looked into the C90 drive replacement, it seems to be a popular mod for that bike but I think I would rather trade up at this point than try to change out the drive.

I really like the Bolt, was hoping to maybe trade the M50 for a Bolt and the 5 speed was making me hesitant. Hence the questioning.

Larryboy - does the 950 seem pretty comfy at 80? Do you know what RPM it's at?
bonekrusher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 11:53 AM   #86
victor441
Studly Adventurer
 
victor441's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Sonoma, Calif.
Oddometer: 871
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbreeze View Post
I think it's gorgeous. I think it will be a blast to ride.

As for a 5 sp vs 6 sp - what matters is how the gears are spaced, not how many there are. My Nomad has a 5, and imo that is all it needs. I used to have a Shadow 1100 with a 4 sp, and never thought it needed a fifth. On the other hand, I have had 6 sp bikes that I thought needed another gear. It used to be "stylish" to have a 4sp. I guess I'm showing my age. Lots of torque and a broad powerband helps too.
Agree in general on gearing, I currently have three bikes, one each 4, 5 , 6 speed and like the 5 speed the best as the ratios are well chosen. Really hope Yamaha eventually makes a standard or ADV version of this eventually or better yet something like the XR1200, would be VERY interested...do realize this is highly unlikely it is but great to see a new air cooled big twin in any case.
victor441 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 11:53 AM   #87
Maytag Repairman
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Maytag Repairman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Kingston, Washington
Oddometer: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonekrusher View Post
I have a zuk M50 and I think it needs a 6th gear pretty badly.

Guess I'd have to ride a Bolt to see if it's better but my guess is they're not that far apart tranny wise.



In 5th on my M50 I top out at 90 on a level surface, which is fine. I would like to be able to "cruise" at 80ish but the engine is just working too hard for me to leave it there for long stretches.
My C50 was pretty bad as well. I could only get it to 70-72 before the engine got so loud that I was feeling sorry for it. Never liked the bike well enough to swap out to the C90 drive. I sold it and got something else.

My wife's vstar 950 has taller gearing and is much quieter on the highway. I am annoyed with it though because at least once a day I scrape the floor boards.
Maytag Repairman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 11:59 AM   #88
larryboy
Chopper Rider
 
larryboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: On a set of 50,000 mile tires.
Oddometer: 14,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonekrusher View Post
Larryboy - does the 950 seem pretty comfy at 80? Do you know what RPM it's at?

Yup and two-up, really comfortable bike after the Mustang seat install. Never did put a windshield on it.

RPM? Never cared in 23,000 miles.
larryboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 12:02 PM   #89
bonekrusher
big jerk
 
bonekrusher's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: UT
Oddometer: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maytag Repairman View Post
My C50 was pretty bad as well. I could only get it to 70-72 before the engine got so loud that I was feeling sorry for it. Never liked the bike well enough to swap out to the C90 drive. I sold it and got something else.

My wife's vstar 950 has taller gearing and is much quieter on the highway. I am annoyed with it though because at least once a day I scrape the floor boards.
Thanks for the info, good to hear from someone who drove both. Out of curiosity what did you replace your C50 with?

M50 scrapes pegs all the time, can't imagine if it had boards on it. One of the reasons I'm attracted to the Bolt is it seems a little more nimble than the M50, can't wait to see one in person.
bonekrusher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 12:18 PM   #90
Maytag Repairman
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Maytag Repairman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Location: Kingston, Washington
Oddometer: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonekrusher View Post
Thanks for the info, good to hear from someone who drove both. Out of curiosity what did you replace your C50 with?

M50 scrapes pegs all the time, can't imagine if it had boards on it. One of the reasons I'm attracted to the Bolt is it seems a little more nimble than the M50, can't wait to see one in person.
I decided to get away from cruisers for a while. I bought a Honda NC700x. It does real well around 70 and that is about all the faster I care to go.
Maytag Repairman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 10:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014