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Old 04-26-2013, 06:52 AM   #16
max384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlwood99 View Post
I am 56 so maybe brittle as hell--but my mind is young I might take Brett's advice and find a smaller bike when playing on dirt. But damn, if I break 15 bones doing under 30, what will happen on pavement going, say, 65?
Injuries are incredibly variable. The same person could have two seemingly identical crashes, yet end up fine in one and dead in the next.

I wrecked last winter going about 60-70mpg. Dumbass me had a new bike and didn't do parking lot braking practice. A truck pulled into my lane and I squeezed the brake lever as hard as I would have on my last bike, locked up the front, and took a tumble (fortunately I just tumbled and slid; I didn't hit anything). I walked away with zero injuries, besides a couple small bruises. Gear definitely played a big role in my lack of injuries... But so did luck. You just never know.

I'm also only 30, and age probably played a role in both of our cases.
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:32 AM   #17
jimhaleyscomet
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Heavy bikes in the dirt? Injury waiting to happen?

I have a KLR650 and a Honda CRF250L. My son rides a WR250r and I recently sold a TW200. Below 40mph the TW200 may be one of the most fun bikes out there. It is actually a lot of fun seeing how slow you can climb hills (very tractor like) and taking technical trails.

I too wonder about the danger of big bikes in the dirt. It just seems that the heavier the bike the more it is going to hurt when you go down. Also, a lighter bike can often be righted with a strategically placed foot but once a big bike starts to go the rider better get out of the way.

My big question is do we see all these big bike-dirt-minor getoff injuries because big (ie heavy) bikes injure more or is it just a reflection that so many more folks are out there doing serious dirt/gravel miles on heavier bikes rather then on 250's?
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:13 AM   #18
Scott_PDX
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I had a fall and a "stick" recently off my WR250R doing about 30mph. Knocked the wind outta me, but noting broke. Though for sure I broke something but doc said no - Epic bruising, pain and soreness were my companions for a couple weeks. Last weekend marked 4 weeks since my off, and I had a great ride on that same bike in that same area.

I'm guessing your fall was a just a freak thing, same guy can do the same fall and laugh it off, while the next guy punctures a lung. Same thing can happen walking down the sidewalk, driving your car to work, lifting a box etc.

I love that my GS will take me down gravel roads to get where I want to go, but a steady diet of that is much more delightful on a littler bike.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:11 AM   #19
NJ-Brett
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Well, how old are you?

And a WR is only 300 pounds, guys ride 400 pound bikes...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_PDX View Post
I had a fall and a "stick" recently off my WR250R doing about 30mph. Knocked the wind outta me, but noting broke. Though for sure I broke something but doc said no - Epic bruising, pain and soreness were my companions for a couple weeks. Last weekend marked 4 weeks since my off, and I had a great ride on that same bike in that same area.

I'm guessing your fall was a just a freak thing, same guy can do the same fall and laugh it off, while the next guy punctures a lung. Same thing can happen walking down the sidewalk, driving your car to work, lifting a box etc.

I love that my GS will take me down gravel roads to get where I want to go, but a steady diet of that is much more delightful on a littler bike.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:23 AM   #20
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There are LOADS of guys riding light bikes, all the TW200's, xt225's, crf230, wr250, dr350's, all the Euro brands, 2 smokes, they run into tree's, rocks, go off cliff's, and crash in every way.

Look back through face plant, all the X rays are on street crashes on big bikes or big bikes in the dirt, mostly older guys, not the 25 year olds.
The big bikes in the dirt crashes often happen at lower speeds.

I crash all the time in the dirt, the only time I got all busted up was on a tall 650.

They are hard to handle, they want to keep going when they fall over, the front tire tends to dig in with all the weight, they may be taller so you fall from higher up, and being tall and heavy, a dab will not save you.
You also might be going faster then you would on a smaller lower powered bike (not Euro brands).

Often, since they do more street, they have tires on them that do better on the street.

Way in the past, it was big 2 stokes with crappy suspension.
Light, low, plenty of power, you did not go real fast over real rough stuff, and when you lost it, it was not a big deal unless you were crazy.







Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhaleyscomet View Post
I have a KLR650 and a Honda CRF250L. My son rides a WR250r and I recently sold a TW200. Below 40mph the TW200 may be one of the most fun bikes out there. It is actually a lot of fun seeing how slow you can climb hills (very tractor like) and taking technical trails.

I too wonder about the danger of big bikes in the dirt. It just seems that the heavier the bike the more it is going to hurt when you go down. Also, a lighter bike can often be righted with a strategically placed foot but once a big bike starts to go the rider better get out of the way.

My big question is do we see all these big bike-dirt-minor getoff injuries because big (ie heavy) bikes injure more or is it just a reflection that so many more folks are out there doing serious dirt/gravel miles on heavier bikes rather then on 250's?
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:03 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Rackemcrackem View Post
TLWood99,


Since that time, I have consistently worn gear that includes a minimum of pressure suit (or equivalent spine and chest protectors), armored shorts and articulated plastic knee armor under my textile gear. For the past year, I have been wearing a Hit-Air vest over Knox spine and chest protectors, with separate shoulder and elbow protectors. Gearing up takes a couple of minutes longer than simply slipping on a jacket and pants but I feel that the small amount of time spent is very worthwhile.

I did have one 2-3 mph tipover on my DL650 while wearing the Hit-Air vest and it inflated as advertised. It felt like I was cocooned by a very firm marshmallow of airy goodness and there was no soreness from the impact. I certainly didn't need that at 2-3 mph but I do feel that it would be very protectective to my ribs, abdomen, spine, tailbone and neck in the event of a serious crash. It would probably also offer some protection to the collar bones due to the reduction of forces from lateral motion of the neck.

To my knowledge, there is no currently available technology that offers any more impact protection for motorcycling than what I have been wearing, aside from possibly wearing different brands of armor under my gear.

!
I am definitely seriously upping the gear I wear, although in Texas, that will likely affect how much I ride because of the heat.

I have thought about airbag vests as part of that equation and generally think they are a good idea, but in my off I don't think it would matter.

I went dowh much like this: just a whole lot faster.

I never so much as stuck a hand out. Inspection of the gear showed a tear under the arm pit, and a lot of ground in dust along my side. I think point of impact was shoulder followed by my relatively unprotected side and hence all the broken ribs. Also the speed in which it occurred may not have been sufficient to trigger the airbag.

I am curious as to whether a pressure suit would have made a difference. I know if i continue to ride at the least I will be using one of those in a big way.
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Old 04-26-2013, 02:56 PM   #22
DavidBanner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlwood99 View Post
Thanks for all the well wishes, shared experience and insight. As I said I have a few months before I can ride so I have some time to think about what I am going to do. I have heard from a lot of people who have taken a hard fall on road bikes as well as motorcycles and I gather having second thoughts about riding is pretty natural.

My buddy I was riding with said the gravel was really loose, and the ranch manager who came out to help the ambulance get me out quicker told him that the road recently had been re-graveled. Maybe an extra loose surface with a careless pull on the front brake added up to this.

I have learned a lot though beyond the obvious. Like how important it is to have a riding buddy with you. I had a spot on a ram mount that went flying, and a cell phone somewhere in my jacket. I might have been able to fish the phone out eventually, but a couple feeble tries and I was content to wait and have someone else do it. If you take a hard fall and can't reach the Spot or a phone and there isn't likely to be traffic going by, it doesn't matter if you are in Big Bend National Park or an hour from downtown Dallas.

I learned that no matter what the gear, those half-inch thick shoulder pads don't mean diddly if you hit hard and don't slide.

I am 56 so maybe brittle as hell--but my mind is young I might take Brett's advice and find a smaller bike when playing on dirt. But damn, if I break 15 bones doing under 30, what will happen on pavement going, say, 65?

I also learned that pain meds will stop you up something awful. I am on a steady diet of Myralax and Flomax to keep all systems operational even long after stopping most of the pain meds except one at night to help me sleep. Even without the pills I haven't had nearly as much pain as everyone thinks I should. Mainly just a lot of aches, but not the sharp pain people associate with broken bones. Although I sneezed once and thought I was going to pass out. As some one said, don't catch a cold with broken ribs. But me? I am doing great. One week out from PT and that (hopefully) will be the beginning of the end of this little adventure.

Thanks again.
for starters, you'll fall off less often (we hope).
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Old 04-26-2013, 05:22 PM   #23
Rackemcrackem
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A pressure suit, by itself, might absorb some of the impact to your shoulder by dispersing it over a slightly larger area of your shoulder and upper arm than a shoulder pad inside a jacket. That's only a guess, of course. Depending on how a person falls, the chest and spinal protectors might also absorb some impact. Like others have said, nearly identical crashes can result in different injuries (or non-injuries), one never knows until you try it.

The airbag vest I wear has inflatable portions that cover the lateral ribcage and it's possible that could make a significant difference in an event like yours. Also, my Knox chest protector wraps around my chest to about the lateral midline, rather than just covering the front of the chest, as some do. Likewise, some pressure suits cover the thorax more completely than others.

My airbag inflated when I was flicked off my bike in a very slow speed tip over, so I don't see why it wouldn't do the same in a typical higher velocity low-side, high-side, rear-end collision, frontal strike or most other scenarios involving significant force that would detach a rider from a bike. Would it inflate before impact? I don't know but it's rated to fully inflate 0.2 seconds after being triggered.

In regard to hot weather, I've worn all the gear that I described up to 95 degree temps in relatively high humidity, with a vented jacket and pants. I'm relatively heat tolerant, though. Above that temperature, or riding on challenging trails, I might want to shed some of the gear or wait for cooler temps.

Also, as someone already suggested, you might talk with your doctor about osteopenia/osteoporosis. Smoking, drinking much alcohol, routinely drinking many soft drinks, etc, can make a person more prone toward having brittle bones. Bone density can be measured fairly easily.

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Old 04-26-2013, 06:32 PM   #24
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Couple things worth mentioning.

You got lucky. You crashed your motorcycle and are here to tell us all about it.

You got unlucky. You got pretty messed up. I wrecked doing highway speeds with less than sufficient gear and walked away with nothing more a little blood and some soreness. My father got off in triple digits in a half helmet and a sleeveless and made it off better than you....

The main thing? You get to decide whether or not your going to continue to ride. What sucks is when the decision is made for you.
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Old 04-26-2013, 07:08 PM   #25
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Glad your with us!
Sympathize about the pain meds. They suck donkey balls.
After my smack and on meds did LOTS of water, yogurt and sauerkraut.
But they still plug you up like a cement enema!
Heal well!
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:09 PM   #26
Voz
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+1 on the Hitair airbag jacket. I have the Motorrad V2 from crashbounce.com very affordable and extremely effective.

I have only had 1 off at about 5mph and the Airbag deployed, it was so effective that I can not even recall the impact with the ground.
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Old 04-29-2013, 06:16 PM   #27
Nacho911
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Hey,
Hope your feeling better. I did almost word for word the same shit. I was standing, touched front brake, and next I heard skid and the front end washed out right and levered me left and next second I'm about to eat dirt. Slammed my left shoulder in hard. Broke clavicle in two places drove in hard thought for sure I punctured my lung. Crushed my left foot, as it did not move off the peg. Dislocated my big toe, and fractured 3 metatarsals. It happened so fast. New TKC 80 on the front. Went from a K60 after 18300km on it. I think the more aggressive tire caused me to flow forward in the light braking and as I levered forward I naturally grabbed more lever causing the washout.
The SPOT worked well. I walked 2 km or so and got a lift to a main road and met the ambulance (my coworkers) before the helicopter took off to come get me so that could be cancelled. i was not about to sit and wait for help. i thought of how i was going to decompress my chest with a Leatherman, hand sanitizer, and a air gauge. Luckily did not need to, thats why i hobbled to get to help faster. I spent about 5 days in hospital. I also had surgery on my clavicle. A plate 8 screws and some chicken wire. LOL.

You will heal, physio is your friend. Acupuncture, IMS, the sonic thingy, manipulation. My shoulder feels great, at times the skin feels a bit tight over the plate, SCBA air pack doesn't seem to agrivate it. The foot gets sore and still swells at times. I found the most irritation I had was blowing my nose before the SCM ligament and Scalenes reattached to the collarbone. Felt like a knife stick for about a month after.

Heal well. I'm rode last week. Felt good. Snow was gone now at -1c and it snowed about 1/2 a foot today. That will be gone by Wednesday I'm sure.

UG




Quote:
Originally Posted by tlwood99 View Post
About 5 weeks ago I was riding with a buddy on an oil lease in North Texas. We had been on some boring, flat gravel roads. One road turned on to another and so on, all in a kind of grid pattern. I had ridden gravel roads a lot, I had knobbies on the GS, and we were loping along at 30-40 mph in pretty relaxed fashion.

My buddy up ahead comes to a T and turns right. Yet another flat boring easy right turn. I have plenty of time to make the turn. I have the bars rotated upwards a bit for when I am standing, although I take the turn seated. GPS says I was doing 27 mph.

I thought the bike was straight up as I pull the front brake to slow the bike before starting the turn. I remember that front brake well because in a split second later I am getting a close look at the front wheel which seems to have tucked and dug in. An instant later I hit the ground shoulder first.

Neither I nor the bike seem to slide. Its like I was made of Velcro. The bike and I are side by side with me "above" the seat. After what seemed like a whole lot of screaming I find myself in a crumpled up ball.

It takes 30 minutes to get an ambulance, and at least a miserable 30 minute ride out. X-rays at the first hospital showed 8 broken ribs, 5 of them twice, flailed chest syndrome (because of all the broken ribs), broken collar bone,


broken scapula, and a punctured lung. That led to another ambulance ride to a second hospital, a day in ICU, and a few days in the trauma ward, followed three weeks later by surgery on my shoulder and another day in the hospital.

Now it looks like this:





Two weeks from now I start 2-3 months of therapy on my shoulder.

AS best as I can figure, I had gotten too comfortable on the bike. Being seated with the bars rotated up had the effect of increasing the effort I had put on the front brake, causing the front wheel to lock up (ABS off), the front wheel to tuck, and the bike (and me) to hit the ground hard. I had absolutely no time to react which troubles me. I had taken the BMW off-road school a couple of years ago where we practiced locking up and recovering a locked front wheel. Well that didn't happen.

I am ATGATT, wearing a BMW Rallye 3 jacket, with CE rated armor everywhere including the shoulder. I am left wondering how much this armor did for me. I will say that I didn't have a scratch on me (but some seriously nasty bruises) beyond all the broken and punctured stuff.

So as I sit around healing I am still shocked at how fast it happened and how much damage was caused for the speed I was going. Is my internal calculator off, or would you say this is what you would expect? I know people get killed for less, and others walk away unscathed from a uglier crash. I am just trying to figure out where on the scale I come out. I love riding, but if this is the price I have to pay for the next off then maybe not. I also want to make sure I know what happened so I don't do it again.

Thanks for reading and I welcome any thoughts on this.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:01 AM   #28
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It sounds like there may have been a hole in the road surface under the new, evenly graded gravel. Your wheel went into the deep gravel at the same time you braked...or maybe something else.

I wear a Hit-Air vest just in case. You do need to be launched off the bike for it to trigger and inflate. The ninja turtle-like chest and back protectors might be best for the non-get-off smash up, especially until your bones regain full strength.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:51 AM   #29
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Dude glad you're OK. Any consultation.... I love the X-ray pic. That's got to make for great conversation some where down the road.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:15 PM   #30
Little Bike
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I'm glad you're relatively OK, nice x-ray!

I did something similar Saturday in Jimmy Lewis' class. We were practicing locking up the front to see what it felt like and how to correct. On my last time around or so I went too fast (I was getting a little frustrated at not being to lock it up like I wanted) and when things started going south I didn't release the brake. duh. Always, always carefully follow Jimmy's directions. Anyways, I hit the lake bed hard on my left side with my ribs, then knee and elbow. My ribs hurt then, but not too bad. However, as the day went on they got more and more painful so I sat out a few times and didn't do as much practice as I wanted. That night I could hardly drive my car to dinner and had a heck of a time rolling over in bed - thought I was screwed for part 2 of the class on Sunday. Fortunately, with some Aleve, the pain let up pretty well for Sunday, but I got pretty sore again driving home.
Anyways, it wasn't a high side or a low side, but a slam!

Hope I learned my lesson!
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