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Old 04-24-2013, 10:00 PM   #1
Jimm Dandy OP
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ballast question

well, I have my Dnepr hack mounted on my dl1000.. still sortin things out.. I could swear I read somewhere on this forum that it would be beneficial to have ballast on the right rear corner of the tub to help with hack wantin to raise in right hand turns.. so I mounted a rack with a 2 and a half gallon gas can filled with sand and bolted it to the tub behind the rear fender.. a buddy of mine who has some hack experience told me that he thinks that's too far back and that the weight should be more like right behind the seat.. he seems to think it could affect the steering.. I,m guessin the sand weighs about 45-50 lbs.. plus my dog weighs about 45 lbs and is usually with me.. any thoughts??
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:25 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimm Dandy View Post
well, I have my Dnepr hack mounted on my dl1000.. still sortin things out.. I could swear I read somewhere on this forum that it would be beneficial to have ballast on the right rear corner of the tub to help with hack wantin to raise in right hand turns.. so I mounted a rack with a 2 and a half gallon gas can filled with sand and bolted it to the tub behind the rear fender.. a buddy of mine who has some hack experience told me that he thinks that's too far back and that the weight should be more like right behind the seat.. he seems to think it could affect the steering.. I,m guessin the sand weighs about 45-50 lbs.. plus my dog weighs about 45 lbs and is usually with me.. any thoughts??
Only carry esky or a female. Never carried a useless product like sand.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:13 AM   #3
SmellyGoatBoy
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You'll only need the sand until u get used to the rig. Once you get the feel for it you will be fine. I personally never used any ballast and have been fine. I to have my dog in the hack most of the time so it's like 60lbs of ballast.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:36 AM   #4
usgser
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If you feel the need to carry ballast in the tub. You want it inside the imaginary safety triangle which is between the center point of the wheels.
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:51 AM   #5
claude
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You are okay with it where you have it. The tip ove rline between the sidecar wheel and rear wheel is not much of a concern. You DO NOT want it too far forward. The challenge with teh stroms is their soft supension. Right handers will not be a huge issue once you get experience. Left handers ,however, can bite you as th erear of the bike unloads with the front to sidecar wheel tip over line being in effect. You can use body english which will help some but do so prior to getting into the turns. DO NOT ge tover confident early on in lefties! Ideally a stiffer supension and a decent anti-swaybar on a rig like you have would be like night an dday handling wise. Some may disagree which is fine..... anyone who does is more than welcome to come ride some twisties with me on pavement or dirt and we will see what happens...LOL. )
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:15 AM   #6
DRONE
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Originally Posted by usgser View Post
If you feel the need to carry ballast in the tub. You want it inside the imaginary safety triangle which is between the center point of the wheels.
I carry a lot of crap in my trunk which is mostly outside the triangle, but I agree with USGSER that ideally you want your ballast inside the triangle and, of course, towards the outside of the car.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:49 PM   #7
Tarka
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Jeez not the ballast thing again.

Just get some tuition or read and absorb the plentiful advice on here or elsewhere then practice riding it as it is.

If it was meant to weigh more than it does,it already would do.

Furthermore,if you use ballast to 'learn' or 'get used to' the machine,you`ll still be back at square one come the time the ballast gets removed.

The chair may well lift at some points...that`s the way of sidecars...but despite how it feels when it gets light or does actually lift it won`t go completely over,and you need to learn the point at which it`s about to lift and what to do when it does anyway.
Hence tuition being ideal...you must be able to deal safely and controllably with a light chair and you`re really not proficient unless you can fly the chair on demand and control it when it does fly.

Bin the ballast...learn the machine.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:06 PM   #8
Flodder
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Originally Posted by Tarka View Post
Jeez not the ballast thing again.

Just get some tuition or read and absorb the plentiful advice on here or elsewhere then practice riding it as it is.

If it was meant to weigh more than it does,it already would do.

Furthermore,if you use ballast to 'learn' or 'get used to' the machine,you`ll still be back at square one come the time the ballast gets removed.

The chair may well lift at some points...that`s the way of sidecars...but despite how it feels when it gets light or does actually lift it won`t go completely over,and you need to learn the point at which it`s about to lift and what to do when it does anyway.
Hence tuition being ideal...you must be able to deal safely and controllably with a light chair and you`re really not proficient unless you can fly the chair on demand and control it when it does fly.

Bin the ballast...learn the machine.
Fully agree with what Tarka says. All that is in my sidecar is a very small tool box. Have learnt to handle it without weight in the sidecar
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Old 04-25-2013, 06:05 PM   #9
Jimm Dandy OP
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thanks fellars..good points all

I took an adventure hack class in Oregon last year and learned how to fly the car.. and since I will no longer be doing wheelies, flyin the hack will be something I will prolly do tooo much of in the future.my main reason for wantin to keep the hack wheel on the ground is I am haulin my dog almost everytime I go ridin and I don't wanna freak her out and have her bail. and I am not rally into tyin her down.. so I guess it'll all work out in the wash in due time.. thanks again
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:50 PM   #10
XL-erate
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Of course it's entirely up to you but I would never have a dog in a sidecar or the back of a pickup without it being restrained.

Those with a weak stomach may not enjoy the rest here so you'd best get onto another post, this is vivid and gory. Bad....

Many years ago I was about a mile behind a pickup truck on a country road, both of us doing about 65-70 mph. His oh so well trained dog jumped up on the side of bed and next thing I knew he fell out! The sight of that poor dog rolling, bouncing, flopping and tumbling like a rag doll, and then the blood starting to spurt then gush in the air was sickening, The poor helpless creature finally slid to a stop, what was left of him, with a long red track behind him strewn with body parts, guts and pieces. One leg gone, some of the side of his head missing, snout broken and torn, stomach torn open and brains laying on the pavement.

Your choice but personally, I'll always restrain a dog in a pickup bed or sidecar. Once was more than enough for a lifetime.

I'll probably edit this later so as not to spoil people's day.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:42 AM   #11
Tarka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimm Dandy View Post
I took an adventure hack class in Oregon last year and learned how to fly the car.. and since I will no longer be doing wheelies, flyin the hack will be something I will prolly do tooo much of in the future.my main reason for wantin to keep the hack wheel on the ground is I am haulin my dog almost everytime I go ridin and I don't wanna freak her out and have her bail. and I am not rally into tyin her down.. so I guess it'll all work out in the wash in due time.. thanks again
What makes you so sure the dog won`t be begging you to fly the chair anyway?
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Old 04-26-2013, 02:31 AM   #12
Sidecarjohn
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Sidecar outfits are very much about individuality, be it uniqueness, or application. In 40 plus years I've never seen the need to "fly" the sidecar save as a fun thing in a field. Equally, save for an early Russian import back in 1972, the power, configuration and weight of our outfits since has tended to reduce the propensity, or desire to "fly".

Do I feel inadequate because I can't wheelie a solo, or "fly" the chair ? Not really, but don't lose sleep over those who so do. However, I know of disasters, even tragedies, when things have gone wrong, but often other additional factors have contributed, some self inflicted, others due to outside influences.

Do I consider ballast to have merit ? In our battleship heavy Saluki attached to the BMW K1, absolutely pointless. In the lighter sidecar alongside our full power Vmax it does help. It's an option that should be seen as a choice, and certainly not an indicator of inadequacy.
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Old 04-26-2013, 02:51 AM   #13
SwampFox883R
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Originally Posted by Tarka View Post
What makes you so sure the dog won`t be begging you to fly the chair anyway?
Maddie enjoying flying in the chair (pic from when we were learning to ride together):



I do carry 25lbs of ballast fixed on the floor behind the seat. I've ridden without ballast, but the rig is just a little too "tippy" when the sidecar is empty.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:25 PM   #14
SmellyGoatBoy
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If you ride off road flying the car is very handy. You can avoid a lot of the bumps by flying the car over them.
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Old 05-04-2013, 08:50 AM   #15
vetsurginc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimm Dandy View Post
well, I have my Dnepr hack mounted on my dl1000.. still sortin things out.. I could swear I read somewhere on this forum that it would be beneficial to have ballast on the right rear corner of the tub to help with hack wantin to raise in right hand turns.. so I mounted a rack with a 2 and a half gallon gas can filled with sand and bolted it to the tub behind the rear fender.. a buddy of mine who has some hack experience told me that he thinks that's too far back and that the weight should be more like right behind the seat.. he seems to think it could affect the steering.. I,m guessin the sand weighs about 45-50 lbs.. plus my dog weighs about 45 lbs and is usually with me.. any thoughts??
I'm riding a Ural GearUp so I had a 10L can on the bike side at the back of the car. I removed the shovel mount on the right rear of the car (goes in the boot just fine) and added a second 10L can (I tend to wander far away from gas stations). Between those and tools/rainsuit/water/oil/scissor jack that normally reside in the boot with the shovel, the car is pretty stable. I can tell the difference once I've emptied both the fuel cans, but no biggy for the heavy car.

Have a ball!!!
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