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Old 07-09-2013, 09:41 PM   #121
Entrepre-neer OP
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[QUOTE=Wile_E;21829600]After much delay, XR650R front end is headed your way.

[/URL]

Speaking of delay, what took so long? I was using my free cycle time to prep the sub-sonic swine for hare scramblin' on the 4th of July. Now that all that is wrapped up, I got everything sorted and stuffed into cardboard. It looks like someone might have hit something really hard with the front wheel, just sayin.

[/QUOTE[/URL]]

17 days til RallyWV. Plenty of time to fit the new legs.

I always love Hawaiian shirt day at the local off road club! :

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Old 07-16-2013, 10:02 AM   #122
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10 Days until Rally WV and the racing debut of the scrambler.
I have questions about steering stops below...if you have any knowledge please lend it.
I got the XR650R front end in the mail last Friday but I already had riding plans over the weekend so I did that instead. Saturday the 900 got the nod. A buddy and I went out to central Ohio near Tar Hollow and Zaleski state forest to do a bunch of gravel roads from a road enduro route sheet I had from a couple years back. In total it was little over 180 mile loop and weather was awesome. The bike ran flawlessly too.
Saturday I took the 450 out to Dayton Dirt Riders club for about 4 hours of technical hills and trails. Epic day but sweltering heat.
So last night I got the forks and triples out to do some dry fitting to decide if I'm crazy to modify a bike that already runs really well on back roads. The racer in me would regret not trying since I think it will allow the bike to handle rough stuff faster.
Here's the bike at the beginning of the night.

Everything came apart with the tools in my tool pouch. I left the brakes and throttle hooked up. lazy ass.

This was one of those nights when the beer is cold and things are going right.
Keep in mind that these bikes rolled off the assembly line 21 years apart and where "originally" designed to serve two very different roles. These Honda guys stick with what works.
The fuse panel/upper handlebar clamp/choke cable mount fits the cast upper mounts on the 650 perfectly.
The 650 upper also has a set of mount holes from stock odometer that I can use to mount the ignition switch and the trail tech instruments.

The stem has the exact same measurements (as predicted). Threads are the same and the length/location is spot on.
The top bearing is an exact match.

The 650 forks are set wider so I only lose a few degree of steering turn on each side despite the fatter fork diameter.

This set-up didn't come with a master cylinder but I started digging through the parts bin from the CL/FT500 and I found a brand new nissin unit in black. As an added bonus the taller reservoir will be better than the stocker which was designed for bars with a down bend.

So there's still work to do.
Have to fabricate a plate to mount the ignition and gauges.
The lower bearing on the 650 is shorter and has a smaller outside diameter. Since the shaft is the same size I'll try to transplant the stock one but if I destroy it I'll get a new one in the mail ASAP.
New steering stops are needed to keep the forks from mashing the tank. Should I have a wider stop welded to the head tube or have some aluminum blocks welded to the lower triple clamp?


The ignition lock plate needs to be modified or removed. I'll probably just trim the top edge off for now. It's very thick steel so it won't suffer any real performance loss.

Once these things are handled I'll get into the forks and decide how much to limit the travel and trim the springs.
Other stuff to do in the next 9 days.
I still need to fabricate the mounting brackets for the eye-to-eye rear shocks.
Need to figure out a front fender mount. This may be the trickiest part of the whole deal.
Also need to make some number plates and transfer my numbers over.


I'm going to get back to work now.... ;)
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:51 AM   #123
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It looks like you are really starting to get this thing dialled in. I am curious about a couple of things though.
I don't see any kind of skid plate. It seems like kind of an important piece of kit for anything that's going off-road. Any plans for that? I haven't been able to quite figure out what to do with mine for one.
The other thing is the exhaust. I know any kind of 4-1 would be considerably lighter than the stock set-up, and likely tucked up out of the way a bit more as well. I picked up an old Wolf pipe for mine, complete with spare racing baffle.

I don't intend to ride mine anywhere near as hard as what you have planned. Mine will be more as something for exploring back roads/ADV travel etc, complete with bags & backrest for the boss.

I'm also interested to see how that rear suspension holds up. I hope it works for you, but I'm not entirely convinced it will.

What I have noticed from your couple of short videos, is that small trees, bushes, etc, that might slow or even stop a smaller bike, are of no consequence to something with that much mass. You don't have to worry about going around that stuff, just keep the throttle on and plow straight through.
Keep at it.
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:09 PM   #124
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yeah, Braden, what McJamie says about the skid plate and running over shit with that behemoth (and knowing full well where you'll be running it in a few days) has been of concern to me too.

not so much because the amount of obstacles you'll need to hopscotch on RWV's logging roads (and nevermind the occasional deer in the lap ... as history dictates, no skid plate in the world can help you there) but because of the lack of clearance compared to the other bikes and the fact you currently don't have any skid plate to protect those pipes. granted hardwaregrrl and Stagehand were mostly successful running those big b'mers in the past without much issue, but they didn't have the 4 pipes up front and sweeping low under the frame to worry about. (personally, I would've been more concerned about the bmw's transverse mounted heads but I guess they could probably cut down small trees without even scratching the fins)

what I'm envisioning for the scrambler is roughly equivalent to a Roman war shield . but then you'll just be adding weight back on.

so what's the plan?

also, hook a brotha up with those gravel roads around Zaleski. I've been itching to find something like that close by. not much on this side of Columbus that I've discovered yet besides maybe some access roads on private land. M.A.G. and I did some fire trails in the rain a couple weekends ago in the SW VA mtns around Roanoke. they were starting to wash out in places and when he went back a few days later without me, discovered the legal begals had closed the gates, shutting off access. so the rains must've taken their toll after all.
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Old 07-16-2013, 01:33 PM   #125
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@ Hiawassee,

I went through all my Rally WV vids and I don't see anything that will be a problem from a ground clearance perspective. I'm a bit undersprung for bigger bumps and potholes with the stock setup but it'll do if I run out of time on the front end graft.

I have some plans to make a small "deflector plate" to keep the oil cooler lines and oil pan from being peppered with rocks. It's an air cooled motor and a hot one at that so I don't want trap any more heat than necessary.

I'm not eally interested in saving weight at this point. It's fast and stable.

The pipes on this bike are thick walled so they act as a pretty good skid plate on their own as long as I don't get stupid with it....kind of a roll cage on the bottom of the bike.

I hope my crash bars are as effective as Jasons boxer heads....
http://youtu.be/v_YE17X5UZg?t=9m5s

@ McJ

Not sure what could be an issue with the rear suspension. The new shocks are about twice as beefy as the old ones. If you're refering to the angled mount I showed when mocked up, it was just to show ride height. They'll be mounted in the proper plane just like the stockers.
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:58 AM   #126
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[QUOTE=Entrepre-neer;21880994]

I hope my crash bars are as effective as Jasons boxer heads....
http://youtu.be/v_YE17X5UZg?t=9m5s


well, that's one way to do it
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:05 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Entrepre-neer View Post
@ Hiawassee,

I went through all my Rally WV vids and I don't see anything that will be a problem from a ground clearance perspective. I'm a bit undersprung for bigger bumps and potholes with the stock setup but it'll do if I run out of time on the front end graft.

I have some plans to make a small "deflector plate" to keep the oil cooler lines and oil pan from being peppered with rocks. It's an air cooled motor and a hot one at that so I don't want trap any more heat than necessary.

I'm not eally interested in saving weight at this point. It's fast and stable.

The pipes on this bike are thick walled so they act as a pretty good skid plate on their own as long as I don't get stupid with it....kind of a roll cage on the bottom of the bike.

I hope my crash bars are as effective as Jasons boxer heads....
http://youtu.be/v_YE17X5UZg?t=9m5s

@ McJ

Not sure what could be an issue with the rear suspension. The new shocks are about twice as beefy as the old ones. If you're refering to the angled mount I showed when mocked up, it was just to show ride height. They'll be mounted in the proper plane just like the stockers.
Yes, it was more the way it looked like you were mounting them that concerned me, not the shocks themselves.
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:36 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by McJamie View Post
Yes, it was more the way it looked like you were mounting them that concerned me, not the shocks themselves.
cool! Glad I didn't buy lemons.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:55 AM   #129
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Did some more mock-up work on the front end last night. I decided to make a new stop to mount to the existing stop on the steering tube rather than modify the aluminum triples. One more nice thing about the honda engineering...the lower headlight mounting holes are the same distasnce apart.

The stock fender doesn't fit between the thicker lower shocks from the 650 so me hammering may be in order before I can even think about maching some mounts for it.

I'm trying to decide if I want to go full knobby on the back for the race or stick with the 50\50 tire...hoping I have time to try the knobby. The 50/50 tire may be better though since it has a taller, rounder profile. It tracks and slides nicely. The dirt tire may be more prone to grip strong and then break loose suddenly. The heavier bike may make that less noticable. If the logging rodes are wet/muddy or have deep gravel I think the knobby will win out.






I put the shocks on and the forks/ front wheel to get and idea of static sag and ride height.

Here are a few different mockup pics....

It will ultimately look this but with a few inches of sag front and rear to level it out. It doesn't sit level on the jack.
Thw 650r top clamp brings the bars back and up a little more than an inch so it improves the feel big time. More dirt oriented position for sure.


These are interesting...





Can't wait to see the UPS box so I can wrap this up.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:10 AM   #130
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It's lookin' good so far!!!
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:12 AM   #131
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Steeering stops. Seems like fabbing new steel stops for the head tube i the way to go. I have seen poeple drill and tap the aluminum lower triple and put a bolt in there to act as a new stop. This way it can be asjusted. But I have never seen anyone try to weld al blocks to the triple.

Fender- I was going to suggest going to a mx type high fender. It should bolt directly to the lower triple. Less issue with clogging. Catches spray better, and you can trim the back to fit, or shim the mounting bolts to cant it.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:25 AM   #132
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there's something suspisciously familiar about this...
http://www.bikeexif.com/yamaha-xt600

...and this is just badass
http://www.bikeexif.com/dual-sport-motorcycle
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:29 AM   #133
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with respect to the first link in the previous post, have you considered going with the center-mount mono shock?

and with those bigger knobs you're considering, are you concerned at all bout less clearance? we've already witnessed the rub marks you have with the current tire.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:37 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiawassee View Post
with respect to the first link in the previous post, have you considered going with the center-mount mono shock?

and with those bigger knobs you're considering, are you concerned at all bout less clearance? we've already witnessed the rub marks you have with the current tire.
I considered monoshock but I like the dual shock look and the extra cost of parts was prohibitive.

An 84-86 GPZ was on my list due to the monoshock. Still is.


The knobs are bigger but the outer diameter of the dirt tire is smaller (shorter sidewall). The new shocks allow more clearance than the stockers even though they have more travel because they have a longer body. Neither tire will rub with the new shocks.

The current rub marks are from the old, busted, undersprung shocks bottoming on big chuckholes on the rougher forest roads.

If anything the side knobs may rub on the knobby tire. I can trim them with the knobby knife if necessary.

I like the fact that I get lots of sets of eyes on this stuff to catch what I might miss. Keep it coming.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:40 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiawassee View Post
there's something suspisciously familiar about this...
http://www.bikeexif.com/yamaha-xt600

...and this is just badass
http://www.bikeexif.com/dual-sport-motorcycle
I could beat on this thing if it had the gorgeous Ducati tank on it like that XT.
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