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Old 07-06-2013, 10:43 AM   #76
Boon Booni
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Does it count if I regret that the 800 Tigers were not on the market back in 2007 when I had the dough to shop for a new bike?
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Old 09-12-2013, 05:42 AM   #77
mmmmbeeeeer
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Thoughts on ergos...?

Test rode F800GS, 800XC and then F800GSA yesterday. I was quite happy with the F800 up first, then I rode the XC... Well since I recorded the rides on my Drift camera I was able to hear myself say 'wow!' Every time I opened it up!

But here's the catch - I found the riding position on the GS a fair bit more comfortable than the XC. More leg room and more upright - on the XC I found that I was leaning forward too much for my liking (coming off a KLR).

I found that the seat was on the lower setting - putting that on the higher setting improved the legroom and I know I can fiddle with the bars to get them a bit higher and closer, but I just can't shake the feeling that the GS was just more comfortable to ride (excluding the seat). Since I can't fit bar risers for a test ride, I'm a bit nervous about committing without being sure that I can get the ergos right.

I'm interested to hear other opinions - has anyone faced/dealt with the same impression?

Cheers,

Pete
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:29 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmmbeeeeer View Post
Test rode F800GS, 800XC and then F800GSA yesterday. I was quite happy with the F800 up first, then I rode the XC... Well since I recorded the rides on my Drift camera I was able to hear myself say 'wow!' Every time I opened it up!

But here's the catch - I found the riding position on the GS a fair bit more comfortable than the XC. More leg room and more upright - on the XC I found that I was leaning forward too much for my liking (coming off a KLR).

I found that the seat was on the lower setting - putting that on the higher setting improved the legroom and I know I can fiddle with the bars to get them a bit higher and closer, but I just can't shake the feeling that the GS was just more comfortable to ride (excluding the seat). Since I can't fit bar risers for a test ride, I'm a bit nervous about committing without being sure that I can get the ergos right.

I'm interested to hear other opinions - has anyone faced/dealt with the same impression?

Cheers,

Pete
Rox risers

I also installed some hiway pegs on my XC and man it feels great
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:34 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by jtmajors View Post
What about slow speed maneuvering? Like you would on trails and rocks. I would be riding in Arkansas and Oklahoma in the Ouachita National Forest. It can be very rocky up there.

The reason I ask is because I read a review of someone who test rode one that said it was jerky, stalled and didn't like the slow speed. However, once the engine revved he said it was awesome.
There's some truth there. It's tough to ride slow on tight trails ONLY because it idles at 13mph. There's a growing trend now of swapping out the sprockets and seems to be much easier to ride slow. Most of the time I fall over is because I am going too slow and stall. I'm used to mountain biking where I can crawl over things with great balance. But, you have to somehow keep moving still...

I've modified my technique as I learn in my 3 months of dirt experience, all on a giant dirt bike, so that on the tight woods trails, I switch from standing to sitting much more frequently so I lower my CG and to throw a leg down and use more gas. Once I get better and gain confidence going faster, it's tons less tiring working the clutch (and picking my bike up) Still, 13mph is fast on tight singletrack with trees everywhere.
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:38 AM   #80
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To the original question: Not a chance.

I first went to BMW and test rode their 800GS and was displeased by the usefulness of the power and the vibration.... You had about 1k RPM that the bike didn't want to vibrate to death. It had no power at low RPM and at higher RPM it was numbing after the 30min test ride.

I knew an adventure bike was on my list after riding it, but just knew it wasn't that one. Hopped on the Tiger next, and planned on getting it next spring. I told him I'll take it home when I got back from the test ride.
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:43 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmmbeeeeer View Post
Test rode F800GS, 800XC and then F800GSA yesterday. I was quite happy with the F800 up first, then I rode the XC... Well since I recorded the rides on my Drift camera I was able to hear myself say 'wow!' Every time I opened it up!

But here's the catch - I found the riding position on the GS a fair bit more comfortable than the XC. More leg room and more upright - on the XC I found that I was leaning forward too much for my liking (coming off a KLR).

I found that the seat was on the lower setting - putting that on the higher setting improved the legroom and I know I can fiddle with the bars to get them a bit higher and closer, but I just can't shake the feeling that the GS was just more comfortable to ride (excluding the seat). Since I can't fit bar risers for a test ride, I'm a bit nervous about committing without being sure that I can get the ergos right.

I'm interested to hear other opinions - has anyone faced/dealt with the same impression?

Cheers,

Pete
I'd agree that out of the box the bike isn't set up perfectly for every rider. After an hour with an allen wrench or two, you can get that thing dialed in really nice. Maybe it comes from my mt bike heritage, but I'd like to be more forward personally. Either way, the adjustable risers that you can pivot will put you anywhere you want. I have adjustable links for my rear suspension as well that let you play with the ride height. Keep in mind, from the factory they just set it up as average for mainly street riding. It needs to be adjusted for standing.
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Old 09-12-2013, 08:15 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmmbeeeeer View Post
Test rode F800GS, 800XC and then F800GSA yesterday. I was quite happy with the F800 up first, then I rode the XC... Well since I recorded the rides on my Drift camera I was able to hear myself say 'wow!' Every time I opened it up!

But here's the catch - I found the riding position on the GS a fair bit more comfortable than the XC. More leg room and more upright - on the XC I found that I was leaning forward too much for my liking (coming off a KLR).

I found that the seat was on the lower setting - putting that on the higher setting improved the legroom and I know I can fiddle with the bars to get them a bit higher and closer, but I just can't shake the feeling that the GS was just more comfortable to ride (excluding the seat). Since I can't fit bar risers for a test ride, I'm a bit nervous about committing without being sure that I can get the ergos right.

I'm interested to hear other opinions - has anyone faced/dealt with the same impression?

Cheers,

Pete
Obviously the Brit's believe in a more aggressive stance on the tiger. I only rolled my bars further up (pretty much all the way) and have put 8500 miles on it that way. It is a forward, elbows out, aggressive 'attack' stance. IMO you learn to ride the bike that way (as it was meant to be) or modify it to be a cruiser (or beemer LOL). Totally up to the rider.

The first half of my miles was low seat (30" inseam) then switched it up for better legroom - can still tip-toe when stopped. I move it down for 2-up due to so much weight to balance when stopped. I seem to manage okay with a load of camping gear in the high position. The rubbers in the footpegs got tossed when it was brand new.


Quote:
Originally Posted by btao
There's some truth there. It's tough to ride slow on tight trails ONLY because it idles at 13mph. There's a growing trend now of swapping out the sprockets and seems to be much easier to ride slow. Most of the time I fall over is because I am going too slow and stall. I'm used to mountain biking where I can crawl over things with great balance. But, you have to somehow keep moving still...

I've modified my technique as I learn in my 3 months of dirt experience, all on a giant dirt bike, so that on the tight woods trails, I switch from standing to sitting much more frequently so I lower my CG and to throw a leg down and use more gas. Once I get better and gain confidence going faster, it's tons less tiring working the clutch (and picking my bike up) Still, 13mph is fast on tight singletrack with trees everywhere.
Ummm...sitting on the seat RAISES the CG, making the bike more difficult to balance. Standing on the pegs puts your weight at peg-level. And yes, balance is the key to all of it, that and picking a line. Coming from more than 30 years of dirt experience.

The XC isn't meant for plonking along on tight singletrack, although fueling is surprisingly smooth, linear. The thing is just a pig. It does really well on fast dirt 2-track. Yes, a tooth down on the counter will help on the tighter stuff quite a lot. For me, I'd rather have the top speed, 80-90 cruise.

The falling over stuff is from riding too slow. Even on the dualsports, you need to carry a little more speed on trails that the noob would think just so the rocks and bumps don't bobble you off track, also called deflection.

Sounds like you might like riding a trials bike. Consider getting one and joining your local chapter of the ATA. I spent three years doing observed trials and it's a hoot - very fun and arguably the best way to learn balance and how to pick a line through obstacles. Makes you an expert trail rider.

Frankly my TE630 is too heavy for singletrack - it's a beast. But it's more than a hundred pounds lighter than the Tiger and has full knobbies. Singletrack bikes are sub-250lbs. It's all about choosing the right tool for the job.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:57 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Urban Toreador View Post
Not that they would admit; but secretly they all wish they'd bought a full size bike after a few weeks.


I must admit.... I miss my Rocket III......
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:05 PM   #84
Yossarian™
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Quote:
Originally Posted by browneye View Post
Ummm...sitting on the seat RAISES the CG, making the bike more difficult to balance. Standing on the pegs puts your weight at peg-level.
Where the weight rests upon the motorcycle has very little relationship with the CG of the rider's mass.

Standing up raises the rider's CG. It matters not if he is standing on the pegs, or floating above the seat.

What standing up DOES do for the rider is to decouple his mass from that of the bike, making it easier for the two to move independently of one another. It gives better control in many situations. It does not, however, lower the rider CG.
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:17 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian™ View Post
Where the weight rests upon the motorcycle has very little relationship with the CG of the rider's mass.

Standing up raises the rider's CG. It matters not if he is standing on the pegs, or floating above the seat.

What standing up DOES do for the rider is to decouple his mass from that of the bike, making it easier for the two to move independently of one another. It gives better control in many situations. It does not, however, lower the rider CG.
Yep
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:21 PM   #86
BryanCO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmmbeeeeer View Post
Test rode F800GS, 800XC and then F800GSA yesterday. I was quite happy with the F800 up first, then I rode the XC... Well since I recorded the rides on my Drift camera I was able to hear myself say 'wow!' Every time I opened it up!

But here's the catch - I found the riding position on the GS a fair bit more comfortable than the XC. More leg room and more upright - on the XC I found that I was leaning forward too much for my liking (coming off a KLR).

I found that the seat was on the lower setting - putting that on the higher setting improved the legroom and I know I can fiddle with the bars to get them a bit higher and closer, but I just can't shake the feeling that the GS was just more comfortable to ride (excluding the seat). Since I can't fit bar risers for a test ride, I'm a bit nervous about committing without being sure that I can get the ergos right.

I'm interested to hear other opinions - has anyone faced/dealt with the same impression?

Cheers,

Pete
Like others have said - Rox Risers help tremendously. After a recent 2000 mile/5 day mixed road/dirt ride, I may change the bars also. However, I changed the bars, pegs, screen, etc on my last bike -- but I didn't change the engine.
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:25 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btao View Post
There's some truth there. It's tough to ride slow on tight trails ONLY because it idles at 13mph. There's a growing trend now of swapping out the sprockets and seems to be much easier to ride slow. Most of the time I fall over is because I am going too slow and stall. I'm used to mountain biking where I can crawl over things with great balance. But, you have to somehow keep moving still...

I've modified my technique as I learn in my 3 months of dirt experience, all on a giant dirt bike, so that on the tight woods trails, I switch from standing to sitting much more frequently so I lower my CG and to throw a leg down and use more gas. Once I get better and gain confidence going faster, it's tons less tiring working the clutch (and picking my bike up) Still, 13mph is fast on tight singletrack with trees everywhere.
Yep. Idle on for ground with original sprocket was 12 mph - now 8 mph with 15T front.

I also ride a 450X and am a decent dirt rider. It's the more extreme conditions where the gearing improvement really helps. But, the extra 'pull' on the street is also nice.
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:34 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Where the weight rests upon the motorcycle has very little relationship with the CG of the rider's mass.

Standing up raises the rider's CG. It matters not if he is standing on the pegs, or floating above the seat.

What standing up DOES do for the rider is to decouple his mass from that of the bike, making it easier for the two to move independently of one another. It gives better control in many situations. It does not, however, lower the rider CG.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanCO
Yep

Well now guys, you are going all technical on me here in the sense that the total mass of weight CG is slightly higher, but you are now in a position to put that weight on one peg or the other, move it forward or back, and it makes a HUGE difference in offroad control. The OP said he was "sitting on the seat to lower his CG and paddle" through his technical terrain. I submit to you all that this is NOT the most expedient or efficient manner to ride a motorcycle offroad.

I'm just not going to argue a point that's a given in the motorcycle world so just going to move along now.



EDIT: Okay, here's a thread about CG y'all will love even though it's about five years old: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248172
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:17 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btao View Post
It's tough to ride slow on tight trails ONLY because it idles at 13mph.
Strewth! What gearing do you get over the pond? Mine idles at a true GPS confirmed 8mph with the 16T front and I find that acceptable.
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:26 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmmbeeeeer View Post
Test rode F800GS, 800XC and then F800GSA yesterday. I was quite happy with the F800 up first, then I rode the XC... Well since I recorded the rides on my Drift camera I was able to hear myself say 'wow!' Every time I opened it up!

But here's the catch - I found the riding position on the GS a fair bit more comfortable than the XC. More leg room and more upright - on the XC I found that I was leaning forward too much for my liking (coming off a KLR).

I found that the seat was on the lower setting - putting that on the higher setting improved the legroom and I know I can fiddle with the bars to get them a bit higher and closer, but I just can't shake the feeling that the GS was just more comfortable to ride (excluding the seat). Since I can't fit bar risers for a test ride, I'm a bit nervous about committing without being sure that I can get the ergos right.

I'm interested to hear other opinions - has anyone faced/dealt with the same impression?

Cheers,

Pete
I swapped the bars for more sweep and put on a different screen (plus a couple of grand's worth of other farkles) and I'm completely comfortable in neutral air. Everyone's different though but IMO the Tiger is the better all round bike once you get it to fit you.
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