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Old 07-27-2013, 06:58 PM   #61
4TooMany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolBreeze View Post
btw did I mention "push to turn"?
Technically it's "press".
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Old 07-27-2013, 07:14 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by 4TooMany View Post
Technically it's "press".

rofl

yea... ok. "press to turn" then for you. my msf instructor did indeed say "push" and you are the first that I recognize as saying "press". so be it... this could be a "you say toe mae toe, I say toe ma toe" type deal.

oh wait... a quick google reveals

Quote:
Motorcycles[edit]
Even more so than on a bicycle, mastering the technique of consciously countersteering is essential for safe motorcycle riding, and as a result is a part of the safe riding courses run by the Motorcycle Safety Foundation and the Canada Safety Council. At the higher speeds that motorcycles commonly attain, it becomes increasingly impractical to steer by taking advantage of the minute and random corrections needed to maintain balance.
Much of the art of motorcycle cornering is learning how to effectively "push" the grips into corners and how to maintain proper lean angles through the turn. When the need for a quick swerve to one side suddenly arises in an emergency, it is essential to know, through prior practice, that the handlebars must be deliberately pressed away on that side instead of being pulled. Many accidents result when otherwise experienced riders who have never carefully developed this skill encounter an unexpected obstacle.
To encourage an understanding of the phenomenon of countersteering, the phrase positive steering is sometimes used,[18][19] and is summed up in a simplified way as "Push the right-hand bar to steer right; push the left-hand bar to steer left".

I see the word "push" in there... not "press"

yep, tomato it is!

oops... I stand to correct myself. it does indeed use "pressed" in there once. push a few times, pressed once. good deal.

still irrelevant to the reality of the act itself for the most part.

KoolBreeze screwed with this post 07-27-2013 at 08:19 PM
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Old 07-27-2013, 07:16 PM   #63
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they also say to push forward, not down ward. when I'm standing on the bike I push down. meh. seems to work for me... although I'm on that plateau and am waiting to start another upswing.
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Old 07-27-2013, 07:45 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by KoolBreeze View Post
my msf instructor did indeed say "push" and you are the first that I recognize as saying "press".
While I find that hard to believe, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. However, trust me, the MSF does not call it "push" to turn. Do you still have the black book you got when you took your class? Open it up and read page 21.

And if you don't still have your book (page 21): http://www.msf-usa.org/curriculummat...71_noprint.pdf
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Old 07-27-2013, 07:53 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by 4TooMany View Post
While I find that hard to believe, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. However, trust me, the MSF does not call it "push" to turn. Do you still have the black book you got when you took your class? Open it up and read page 21.

And if you don't still have your book (page 21): http://www.msf-usa.org/curriculummat...71_noprint.pdf

maybe, and nope. not going to since I am not that interested in the nuances of the English language and really don't gaf about this particular push or press issue. regardless of the freaking word... it's sort of like whether you say "blow me" or "smd", the point and message is the same. btw this particular conversation is one small aspect of why I am not the most social person around.

;)
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:04 PM   #66
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One thing to bear in mind is that statistically you're more likely to have an accident after the "newbie" period than during it. Many riders I know went down right after they started to feel comfortable.

It's definitely healthy to maintain a certain level of anxiety.
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:12 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolBreeze View Post
not going to since I am not that interested in the nuances of the English language
What may seem like semantics to you is an important difference for brand new students who have no concept of how to steer a motorcycle. "Press" does a better job of conveying the delicacy of the movement required to steer the bike than "push" does. And you can call it whatever you'd like, but since you were referencing something you learned in an MSF class, it seems wise to convey what was actually taught. And what is the four-part turning process everyone learns in their MSF class? "Slow, look, press, roll".
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:48 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by 4TooMany View Post
What may seem like semantics to you is an important difference for brand new students who have no concept of how to steer a motorcycle. "Press" does a better job of conveying the delicacy of the movement required to steer the bike than "push" does. And you can call it whatever you'd like, but since you were referencing something you learned in an MSF class, it seems wise to convey what was actually taught. And what is the four-part turning process everyone learns in their MSF class? "Slow, look, press, roll".
well hey that's cool. you stick with it! looking back at that little quote earlier I prefer the word "push" until you use the term "pushed". I prefer pressed over pushed. (as was used in the quote) pretty much interchangeable imho but I'm not a MSF Coach either. (nor do I desire to be)

I did enjoy one coach in particular... and he did say "push to turn". in fact I don't recall "Slow, look, press, roll" by any of them, although it's possible. for some reason the concept of "slow, look, push, turn" with looking through the turn being emphasized. but this is probably a great subject you guys can get together and discuss over some lemonade and cookies.

personally I like push over press. and pressed over pushed. (except for buttons of course. press a button, push a handlebar.) yay me! how about all those individuals that use "utilize" instead of "use"? omg how annoying, right?




btw that class was indeed a positive thing! good stuff for sure. I fully encourage anybody that wants to ride a motorcycle to take the MSF course. (and support having it as a requirement for a license) keep up the great work!
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:56 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by eastbloc View Post
One thing to bear in mind is that statistically you're more likely to have an accident after the "newbie" period than during it. Many riders I know went down right after they started to feel comfortable.

It's definitely healthy to maintain a certain level of anxiety.

I can see the viability of that statistic. also agree, a "healthy" fear can be a valuable tool and asset. (unhealthy being a liability of course)
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Old 07-27-2013, 09:29 PM   #70
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Cool2

It takes a while to get comfy. I was instantly comfortable on the DR200 during my MSF class. It didn't have enough power to get me into trouble and the only thing it did in a hurry was stop. Once I bought my V-Star 650, I learned what those instructors were trying to teach. 38hp isn't much; crap, I've been on riding mowers with more gumption. But that 38hp to someone who's never ridden on city streets before feels a lot like 300hp. Snap the throttle, ride the brakes, oh $h!t I goofed the shift, nononono don't die athe... damn bike.

For the first 50-odd miles, I hated this bike. Previous owners hadn't taken care of it, I was all over the place, and we did not speak the same language. At times, I felt like a kid screaming at a fish because it couldn't climb trees. It took a little mechanical work, new tires, and probably 200 miles or so before we got into a rhythm. A classmate followed me leaving campus last term and later asked how I got a v-twin cruiser to shift like a sport bike. He didn't hear the BLAT-cut-clunk-BLAT shifting style from me. He didn't believe me when I said, "technique." Once you and the bike start speaking the same language, good things happen.

My advice is this: Sunday mornings at 5:30am, go. Almost no one is out that early on a Sunday, and you have ample room to screw up without doing much damage. Goofing shifts? Go for it. Hop the bike at the light? No one will get mad. Screw up your signal/mirror check/shoulder check/lane change order? No foul, and you learned from it. That's how I went from "I'm sellin' this POS money vacuum!" to "ohhhh holy hell is this fun!"
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:17 AM   #71
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Question remains: how is Tennys feeling after the course? Are you still with us?
I recognize a lot of the stuff in your OP, back from the day's I started riding, 20 years ago.
We ( I and the guy's I ride with) still attend advanced riding classes every few years, it's fun, it keeps you sharp and hopefully helps to prevent accidents.

Like a few weeks ago. I was distracted and while riding 65mph hadn't noticed that the guy in front of me, had stopped to take a left turn. As breaking would not have saved the day, I swerved right and passed him on the right edge of the road (as did the two riders behind me, who also had missed what was going on) I thanked my angles for flying with me that time!
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Old 07-28-2013, 04:33 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by KoolBreeze View Post
in fact I don't recall "Slow, look, press, roll" by any of them, although it's possible.
Interestingly, if you do a google search for "slow look push roll" it automatically corrects you and changes it to "press". Don't argue with google.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:47 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by KoolBreeze View Post
maybe, and nope. not going to since I am not that interested in the nuances of the English language and really don't gaf about this particular push or press issue. regardless of the freaking word... it's sort of like whether you say "blow me" or "smd", the point and message is the same. btw this particular conversation is one small aspect of why I am not the most social person around.

;)
Maybe it's because you epitomize the typical pompous BMW ass.
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:48 AM   #74
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Interestingly, if you do a google search for "slow look push roll" it automatically corrects you and changes it to "press". Don't argue with google.

that's more than likely due to how it is written in a document that is linked and quoted repeatedly.. not how people speak in person. (life off the internet)

yesterday I quoted from a window that was the first I noticed... there were others and when I was closing the various browser windows I made note of another I had opened yet not read. this one: http://forum.motorcycle-usa.com/defa...?f=22&m=458209

here this MSF gentlemen (claiming to have taught MSF courses for 17 years at the time, so that would amount to 20 now if still teaching.) seems at a loss as to what word to "write" never mind speak in person. repeatedly using BOTH push and press when discussing the process.

like mentioned... language semantics. meh.

perhaps you can head over to his place with a glass of lemonade and plate of cookies to sit and address the issue.

on a side note, reading a bit of what he wrote I do recall that pushing down is not correct for riding. not something I heard at the course but something I did read somewhere (magazine I believe) also recall playing with that a bit while out n about, the only time I use "push down" is when I am standing up riding around. then it works fine and I will continue to play with all variety of techniques. like pressing my knee to the tank... (make note I did not say "push")

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Maybe it's because you epitomize the typical pompous BMW ass.
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:51 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolBreeze View Post
that's more than likely due to how it is written in a document that is linked and quoted repeatedly
Um, no.

Google search for:

"slow look press roll" = 36,000 hits
"slow look push roll" = 153 hits
and best of all...
"slow look push turn" (like you claimed in this thread) = 2 hits (one of which is this thread).

Maybe your thick-headedness is really the reason you're so antisocial. I've already sent you the official MSF book, but while you have plenty of energy to continue to push your wrong-headed assertion, you have no energy to just read the book. Because if you'd spend just 30 seconds looking at the book, your argument would fall to pieces. Can't have that.
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