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Old 07-05-2013, 10:30 AM   #511
cls
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Or cut off what's already there. I love my V but I'm hoping/thinking the new Yam Triple will give me the bump in displacement, power/performance, and quality I'm looking for, w/o throwing out the economy. Anxiously awaiting...
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:11 AM   #512
dirtdreamer50
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Rode my son's Ninja 650R today. We installed sport bars and he loves it. I don't like the hunched over narrow bar position. For a twin, this bike is a screamer above 7K rpm and fun to ride at speed... That's when..........

I realized that this FZ will weigh about 50lbs less and have almost twice as much HP and 35% more torque, with upright seating and wide bars. For my money, it's a dream come true. I just need to figure out where to put it and how to pay for it.....tp
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:14 AM   #513
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Thanks for the info on the Euro market tiered licensing system, that makes sense.

Japan had similar HP caps as part of manufacturer "gentlemen's agreements" till 2007 I think. 50cc=7.2HP、125cc=22HP、250cc=45HP、400cc=59HP、750cc= 77HP、1000cc+=100HP. In 2007 they got together and decided that it doesn't really make sense to have only the domestic market be limited and got rid of them. Though it appears they still have differences in Hp limits which I haven't figured out why yet. The Japan FZ-1 has 94Hp while the foreign market version has 150HP.. anyway I digress.


It is interesting that Honda decided to also cap the 700 at 48HP, I would think the 19-21 market is not the biggest target of that class, but more the older farts like me. It seems the 500 at 48hp would cover that market OK. (edit* I just read that Honda is bumping from 670cc to 720cc and will be selling into the above A2 license category. Apparently the dealers were having a hard time differentiating between the 500 and 700) Also interesting that they make different HP versions of bikes for domestic and foreign markets already, why wouldn't they do it for the 700 and introduce a higher HP version for the states? I am sure that the efficiencies of scale for a 1-world bike makes the most business sense, and they don't think the US market cares.. or something. Maybe this is why I have had a hard time feeling the love from Honda lately.. seems like they continue to try and woo new and "practical" riders and those of us with a passion need to look elsewhere. It is ironic that has been the EU bikes, which may be forced to limit HP in the future. Where can we turn then?


Back to the thread, I'm glad that Yamaha anyway has decided to support the US enthusiast market with 113HP in the FZ-09. I think the above points make it clear they apparently truly are committing to making bikes to get excited about, even if the only place to sell them is the US and higher licensees in EU. I am sure they looked at the same business case numbers as Honda and made a different decision. If they keep this up they may become the "KTM/Ducati/Triumph" of the far east while Honda becomes the "responsible transportation appliance vendor for respectable citizens".
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:08 PM   #514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtdreamer50 View Post
Rode my son's Ninja 650R today. We installed sport bars and he loves it. I don't like the hunched over narrow bar position. For a twin, this bike is a screamer above 7K rpm and fun to ride at speed... That's when..........

I realized that this FZ will weigh about 50lbs less and have almost twice as much HP and 35% more torque, with upright seating and wide bars. For my money, it's a dream come true. I just need to figure out where to put it and how to pay for it.....tp
Let's not be careless or overly optomistic:

2012 EX650R 71 hp 66 Nm 461 lbs. wet
2014 FZ-09 113 hp 85 Nm 414 lbs. wet (?)

FZ-09 has a 59% increase in peak HP and a 29% increase in peak torque. The peaks also hit at different places in the rev band.

As to wet weight, the FZ-09 is an 11% reduction wrt the EX650R, so overall a terrific performance envelope.

I still haven't seen wheelbase, rake and trail specs for the FZ-09, so chassis comparisons are still pending.

Of course, the comparison from 650cc to 847cc is hardly fair. So far, only the weight reduction is a valid surprise to me.
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:20 PM   #515
20valves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
2014 FZ-09...414 lbs. wet
Fixt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
...I still haven't seen wheelbase, rake and trail specs for the FZ-09...
wheelbase is 56.7", rake is 25 deg., trail not listed on Yamaha US website
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:29 PM   #516
dirtdreamer50
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gryphon12,
Thanks for taking the time to rain on my parade. I was told HP was 65, from the dealer and torque was in upper 40's, on the 650's. I owned an ER6N and it's basically the same bike as the 650R, and have a feeling that the FZ will be more what I want in a motorcycle than the 6N/R. Just personal...

I will contact you to insure I don't get careless or overly optimistic before I make my purchase.... Doesn't feel good to be berated by a stranger on a forum, does it???

Ok, that's over, thanks for the info, and have a safe weekend... tp
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Old 07-05-2013, 02:58 PM   #517
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Originally Posted by tokyo View Post
Thanks for the info on the Euro market tiered licensing system, that makes sense.

Japan had similar HP caps as part of manufacturer "gentlemen's agreements" till 2007 I think. 50cc=7.2HP、125cc=22HP、250cc=45HP、400cc=59HP、750cc= 77HP、1000cc+=100HP. In 2007 they got together and decided that it doesn't really make sense to have only the domestic market be limited and got rid of them. Though it appears they still have differences in Hp limits which I haven't figured out why yet. The Japan FZ-1 has 94Hp while the foreign market version has 150HP.. anyway I digress.


It is interesting that Honda decided to also cap the 700 at 48HP, I would think the 19-21 market is not the biggest target of that class, but more the older farts like me. It seems the 500 at 48hp would cover that market OK. (edit* I just read that Honda is bumping from 670cc to 720cc and will be selling into the above A2 license category. Apparently the dealers were having a hard time differentiating between the 500 and 700) Also interesting that they make different HP versions of bikes for domestic and foreign markets already, why wouldn't they do it for the 700 and introduce a higher HP version for the states? I am sure that the efficiencies of scale for a 1-world bike makes the most business sense, and they don't think the US market cares.. or something. Maybe this is why I have had a hard time feeling the love from Honda lately.. seems like they continue to try and woo new and "practical" riders and those of us with a passion need to look elsewhere. It is ironic that has been the EU bikes, which may be forced to limit HP in the future. Where can we turn then?


Back to the thread, I'm glad that Yamaha anyway has decided to support the US enthusiast market with 113HP in the FZ-09. I think the above points make it clear they apparently truly are committing to making bikes to get excited about, even if the only place to sell them is the US and higher licensees in EU. I am sure they looked at the same business case numbers as Honda and made a different decision. If they keep this up they may become the "KTM/Ducati/Triumph" of the far east while Honda becomes the "responsible transportation appliance vendor for respectable citizens".
Good post!

In terms of bhp and market-specific limits, I think the developed world has to get used to Honda viewing this segment as a 'legacy market'. They sell millions of bikes in the developing world, so the main thrust of Honda as a manufacturer is not toward first-world markets.

As regards the Yamaha '9' I expected it to be 94bhp (so restricted bikes could get a 50% power cut to 47bhp, ala Triumph's 800 bikes) but, not so. I guess Yamaha expect to steal enough sales from 600cc-900cc bikes to turn a profit.
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:51 PM   #518
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I heard a very good news today from my local Yammie diler...
The 2013 Yamaha MT-09 is going to be showed to the world press in Croatia. Still unsure of where exactly, but i hope it's gonna be here on the coast, just like in 2011 with the premiere of V-storm 650.
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:55 PM   #519
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If you want one, I hope you get it.... tp
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Old 07-06-2013, 04:29 AM   #520
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Check the first 5 minutes.

Steve
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Old 07-06-2013, 04:36 AM   #521
Dranrab Luap
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Will someone please explain to me what this bike will do that the FZ8 or FZ1 won't do. Other than be a triple of course.
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Old 07-06-2013, 05:46 AM   #522
cls
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Be a better balance of light(er) weight and useable power, at all revs, for a cheaper price, and probably at better fuel economy. Better performance and economy, at a better value. If it plays out as expected, I'm in for a couple of 'em. Different models (to come), of course.
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Old 07-06-2013, 05:55 AM   #523
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Will someone please explain to me what this bike will do that the FZ8 or FZ1 won't do. Other than be a triple of course.
Never ridden a FZ8, but I have ridden a FZ1 & a Triumph Streed Triple R. As the FZ8 is basically a sleeved FZ1 I suspect the two are similar, except I understand the FZ8 has a lighter crank than the FZ1 so it spins up quicker & is smoother to boot. Of course it looses the FZ1's top end stomp.

The difference in weight between the FZ platform & Street Triple is profound on the road. The Triumph delicate & precise, the FZ1 bulky & clumsy. The old saying that extra engine you only notice every now & then, but extra chassis you notice every ride couldn't be truer.

Ergonomically the physically smaller Triumph is as roomy as the FZ1 with the added advantage of not splaying the riders legs uncomfortably wide like the 4 cylinder Yamaha does. Additionally to its packaging advantage don't discount the triple engines smoother running, flatter torque curve & visceral sound advantage over the peaky, buzzy & bland FZ1 four. As for he the FZ1's heat soak?

So the MT-09/FZ09 addresses all of the negatives of the FZ08/09 on paper, time will tell if they have hit the target of the Street Triple in the real world.
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Old 07-06-2013, 06:24 AM   #524
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Check the first 5 minutes.

Steve
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Other than the blurple wheels and the need for a FEK, there's nothing that I don't like about that bike. I've been drooling over a CB1100 lately (a lot!), but I'm thinking that the overall value is a lot better with this bike. I can't wait to see one in real life.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:03 AM   #525
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Other than the blurple wheels and the need for a FEK, there's nothing that I don't like about that bike. I've been drooling over a CB1100 lately (a lot!), but I'm thinking that the overall value is a lot better with this bike. I can't wait to see one in real life.
Did you see the tail? Man that thing is disgusting. Even chopping off the fender the brake light looks so out of place. I'm not one for pretty bikes usually but damn .
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