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Old 06-08-2013, 10:39 AM   #16
bradluke0
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Hi all ! I have found the smoothest way to downshift is to hold the throttle steady , pull the clutch in , downshift and let clutch back out . Holding the throttle steady the whole time . Blipping the throttle and trying to time all that stuff , especially on a "non-smooth" bike is tough . Try it you'll like it .
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Old 06-08-2013, 05:24 PM   #17
ttpete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradluke0 View Post
Hi all ! I have found the smoothest way to downshift is to hold the throttle steady , pull the clutch in , downshift and let clutch back out . Holding the throttle steady the whole time . Blipping the throttle and trying to time all that stuff , especially on a "non-smooth" bike is tough . Try it you'll like it .
It can be done, and I do it on occasion, but not when setting up for a corner where I need engine braking quickly. Blipping isn't difficult, but it requires practice to do it smoothly. It becomes automatic after awhile.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:41 PM   #18
chorizo
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Not using the clutch

You think Im blowing it not using the clutch much at all? Times when not pushing my Uly it'll shift real smooth up or down without the clutch. Except 1st. If its not grinding, no harm right? BTW the clutch on the uly is not hydraulic.
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:55 AM   #19
univibe88
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You think Im blowing it not using the clutch much at all? Times when not pushing my Uly it'll shift real smooth up or down without the clutch. Except 1st. If its not grinding, no harm right? BTW the clutch on the uly is not hydraulic.
I am no expert by any means, but I don't see how downshifting without the clutch can be a good thing.

Upshifting, sure. If you are at the right shift point the transmission will easily slide into the next gear. But when you downshift the engine is immediately going to rev up and engine brake. Seems that you want/need to either blip while the clutch is pulled in, or slip the clutch after shifting.
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Old 06-10-2013, 07:56 AM   #20
bradluke0
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Hi all ! The problem is downshifting should not be used to slow down . Downshifting is done to match the engine and road speed . Slowing down is the brakes job, speeding up is the engines job . I am obviously in the engine for go ....brakes for whoa camp .
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:24 AM   #21
ttpete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradluke0 View Post
Hi all ! The problem is downshifting should not be used to slow down . Downshifting is done to match the engine and road speed . Slowing down is the brakes job, speeding up is the engines job . I am obviously in the engine for go ....brakes for whoa camp .
Don't go driving in the mountains with a standard shift car or truck, then. It'll get interesting after you burn the brakes out halfway down.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:00 AM   #22
SteelJM1
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Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Don't go driving in the mountains with a standard shift car or truck, then. It'll get interesting after you burn the brakes out halfway down.
Ahh yes, nothing better than the fishy smell of fried brakes when following cars down Mt. Lemmon!

p.s. even on auto's one can hold lower gears ;)
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:45 PM   #23
Michael OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradluke0 View Post
Hi all ! I have found the smoothest way to downshift is to hold the throttle steady , pull the clutch in , downshift and let clutch back out . Holding the throttle steady the whole time . Blipping the throttle and trying to time all that stuff , especially on a "non-smooth" bike is tough . Try it you'll like it .

Tried it, and it works pretty good! At least where there is time for a lesuirely shift, since it takes a half second or so for the engice to rev up after letting in the clutch.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:44 PM   #24
LuciferMutt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradluke0 View Post
Hi all ! I have found the smoothest way to downshift is to hold the throttle steady , pull the clutch in , downshift and let clutch back out . Holding the throttle steady the whole time . Blipping the throttle and trying to time all that stuff , especially on a "non-smooth" bike is tough . Try it you'll like it .

I do this frequently when I'm just toodling along and am not slowing down rapidly. Works well.

However, for slowing down quickly, while riding more aggressively it doesn't bring the revs up fast enough and a "blip" is still necessary.
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:16 PM   #25
TahoeRider
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Upshifting without the clutch should not damage anything as long as it is done correctly. Although I still do it occasionally on the street it really doesn't serve much of a purpose there. I don't like to ride that hard on the road although I still manage to let myself slip now and then

As far as the rev matching is concerned blipping the throttle is my preferred method as well. As ttpete mentioned it becomes automatic once you have some practice, and is the quickest & easiest method to get it into gear quickly. The worst thing you can do is drag the clutch without compensating for the rpm change. Not only does it wear the clutch, but it will lock up the back tire on occasion as well. When I was a relatively new driver I made this mistake with a diesel pickup that had a manual trans. I downshifted & let the clutch out rather quickly without matching revs, and the high compression locked the back wheels & started sliding down the road sideways
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:57 AM   #26
bradluke0
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Hi all ! ttpete ..... you have downshifting confused with being in the proper gear while going downhill utilizing engine braking . Using the engine to slow down otherwise is a risky move , lock up that back tire with a sloppy downshift and it gets interesting real quick .
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:39 AM   #27
ttpete
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Originally Posted by bradluke0 View Post
Hi all ! ttpete ..... you have downshifting confused with being in the proper gear while going downhill utilizing engine braking . Using the engine to slow down otherwise is a risky move , lock up that back tire with a sloppy downshift and it gets interesting real quick .
Don't do sloppy downshifts. I don't. Proficiency is a good thing.
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:11 AM   #28
bradluke0
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Hi all ! Proficiency is a great thing......in the real world however , we are not perfect and by using the engine to slow down just magnifies any mistakes . Just remember we are not as great a rider as you .
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:40 AM   #29
H96669
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I finally read the rider's manual for my K1200RS on changing gear/shifting down. Sorry BMW......too slow your procedure.

Close the throttle first as in fully close???? Sorry again BMW that's really hard on the package that in the lower gears. Slightly better with the Corbin/Ohlins vs the OEMs but still.

Not using engine compression for some braking and speed control in them very long hills here, and I say long (up to 15 miles).....now that's funny. I must have been doing it wrong for a very long time on BMWs.
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:13 AM   #30
erkmania
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For me, matching revs during a downshift becomes sloppier when I'm just tooling around town or just mindlessly going about my riding. In that case, it's easy for me to just hold the throttle steady as the clutch is released and a lower gear selected followed by slowly re-engaging the clutch. Like the others that said it before me, this method works well and if you're not in a hurry.

While hustling the bike around, I'm with the others here too. Best to match the revs as well as possible to make the ride smooth.

What I'll add here is that I don't always return the clutch lever to its neutral position immediately after a downshift. I will sometimes return the lever to a partway position so the clutch can slowly match engine speed to gear train speed. I do this particularly If I mismatched engine/gear train speed too much. I will even give a subtle throttle blip while the clutch is in the friction zone to reattempt smooth clutch re-engagement or I'll wait for the engine revs to drop if I've over revved. This has worked well when hustling the bike around and not wanting to overwork the rear tire.

I guess my main point is that you can use the friction zone of the clutch when selecting a lower gear just as you can when taking off from a stop; same but reversed. I think the biggest thing for longevity is to keep the gear train and engine speeds matched as well as possible and don't demand that the clutch transfer a lot of power when these speeds are mismatched too much.

I know, I know. I'm the master of the obvious.
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