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Old 06-11-2013, 01:57 PM   #31
def
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Originally Posted by fred flintstone View Post
Personally I think taking perfectly good food (grain) and burning it up inside internal combustion engines is stupid.
I couldn't agree more especially when we had a perfectly good oxygenate (MTBE) already in use.
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:03 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by fred flintstone View Post
No the OP was asking what is quoted above. The answer is pretty simple, e10 at least is safe for nearly all engines, and a lot of faulty stuff gets blamed on it. e85 takes special higher flow fuel systems due to the less energy per unit volume of fuel. There are advantages as far as octane in some applications. No need to invoke politics, Borg, or rocket fuel.
This is what I was asking about. If car companies can make their vehicles run on E-10, E15 and even E-85, why don't the bike (lawn mower, ATV and other small engine) manufacturers do the same?

Sounds like E-10 (at least) is actually safe for motorcycles, lawn mowers, etc but any problems get blamed on it.
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Old 06-11-2013, 03:49 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Callisto224 View Post
This is what I was asking about. If car companies can make their vehicles run on E-10, E15 and even E-85, why don't the bike (lawn mower, ATV and other small engine) manufacturers do the same?

Sounds like E-10 (at least) is actually safe for motorcycles, lawn mowers, etc but any problems get blamed on it.
Yep. And modern EFI systems on most bikes and cars compensate/adapt for the lean condition automatically. Your lawnmower or weed wacker might appreciate richening mixture up a bit.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:22 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by mwood7800 View Post
Take a gallon of ethanol gas in a glass container and add a table spoon of water. Wait 24 hr.
Do the same for pure gas. There will be more water separation, not less. Do people realize that "Dry Gas", sold to remove water from contaminated fuel systems, is mostly alcohol, just like ethanol?

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Old 06-15-2013, 07:15 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred flintstone View Post
No the OP was asking what is quoted above. The answer is pretty simple, e10 at least is safe for nearly all engines, and a lot of faulty stuff gets blamed on it. e85 takes special higher flow fuel systems due to the less energy per unit volume of fuel. There are advantages as far as octane in some applications. No need to invoke politics, Borg, or rocket fuel.

A lot of stuff is related to older engines not being able to compensate for the roughly 4% lean condition you get when running 10% E vs 100% gasoline. Or at least this is my understanding.

Personally I think taking perfectly good food (grain) and burning it up inside internal combustion engines is stupid. Drives up the cost of food and land used to grow it. OP did not ask about that though.
1.Corn was in such surplus that the price was usually below the cost of production, requiring subsidies and land retirement schemes like CRP to prevent an Ag collapse. Why not turn some of our surplus grain into fuel?

2. Domestic oil production was on a downward spiral and we were facing ever increasing bills for imported oil. Why not turn some of our surplus grain into fuel?

3. Climate change was, and still is, viewed as a major threat. While not carbon neutral, ethanol beats the hell out of petroleum. Why not turn some of our surplus grain into fuel?

Of course cattlemen don't like ethanol because they were used to buying cheap, subsidized grain and oil companies aren't too crazy about it either because they are forced to purchase and sell a product they didn't produce themselves.
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:16 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by def View Post
I couldn't agree more especially when we had a perfectly good oxygenate (MTBE) already in use.
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:37 AM   #37
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Puke Fuel lines

i have replaced the fuel lines twice on my 1150. They rotted out from the inside & leaked where they connected to the tank. The lines on there now are bio fuel safe according to the manufacturer. We will see. I have never had fuel line problems on anything before ethanol was added to our gas.
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:50 AM   #38
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i have replaced the fuel lines twice on my 1150. They rotted out from the inside & leaked where they connected to the tank. The lines on there now are bio fuel safe according to the manufacturer. We will see. I have never had fuel line problems on anything before ethanol was added to our gas.
You've simply not been around very long then. I remember fuel lines rotting out back in the 60's when I was in high school.
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Old 06-15-2013, 08:10 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred flintstone View Post
No the OP was asking what is quoted above. The answer is pretty simple, e10 at least is safe for nearly all engines, and a lot of faulty stuff gets blamed on it. e85 takes special higher flow fuel systems due to the less energy per unit volume of fuel. There are advantages as far as octane in some applications. No need to invoke politics, Borg, or rocket fuel.

A lot of stuff is related to older engines not being able to compensate for the roughly 4% lean condition you get when running 10% E vs 100% gasoline. Or at least this is my understanding.

Personally I think taking perfectly good food (grain) and burning it up inside internal combustion engines is stupid. Drives up the cost of food and land used to grow it. OP did not ask about that though.
Safe? If it were just ethanol dissolving things, the simple answer is replace them and move on. That lean condition is NOT because of the alcohol, it is because of tuning - read that as ignition timing and A/F ratio in the FI computer to comply with some BS EPA requirement. (just remember that the EPA tests are lab tests and not truly what has direct impact on air quality). The Borg analogy could be more accurately be switched to lemmings. Most people cann't count let alone do algebra or understand chemistry, so when they see it on TV, it has to be true. When was the last time that congress voted on ANYTHING for scientific reasons? If you do some "SCIENTIFIC" research anyone other than a lemming will see that ethanol is just another DC con job.
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:18 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by stevie88 View Post
1.Corn was in such surplus that the price was usually below the cost of production, requiring subsidies and land retirement schemes like CRP to prevent an Ag collapse. Why not turn some of our surplus grain into fuel?

2. Domestic oil production was on a downward spiral and we were facing ever increasing bills for imported oil. Why not turn some of our surplus grain into fuel?

3. Climate change was, and still is, viewed as a major threat. While not carbon neutral, ethanol beats the hell out of petroleum. Why not turn some of our surplus grain into fuel?

Of course cattlemen don't like ethanol because they were used to buying cheap, subsidized grain and oil companies aren't too crazy about it either because they are forced to purchase and sell a product they didn't produce themselves.
Have you looked at the price of corn futures and farmland lately? And climate change? Really? Ethanol as fuel is very poor economics and extremely short term thinking.
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:22 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by TuefelHunden View Post
Safe? If it were just ethanol dissolving things, the simple answer is replace them and move on. That lean condition is NOT because of the alcohol, it is because of tuning - read that as ignition timing and A/F ratio in the FI computer to comply with some BS EPA requirement. (just remember that the EPA tests are lab tests and not truly what has direct impact on air quality). The Borg analogy could be more accurately be switched to lemmings. Most people cann't count let alone do algebra or understand chemistry, so when they see it on TV, it has to be true. When was the last time that congress voted on ANYTHING for scientific reasons? If you do some "SCIENTIFIC" research anyone other than a lemming will see that ethanol is just another DC con job.
Not sure what you are objecting to. I am not defending the use of ethanol. Just pointing out there is not much of a case against it as far as being bad for engines. As I said you have to be sure to tune for it. Economics of it is preposterously stupid IMHO.
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:27 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by fred flintstone View Post
Have you looked at the price of corn futures and farmland lately? And climate change? Really? Ethanol as fuel is very poor economics and extremely short term thinking.
Of course I have, I'm a farmer. It's been quite good for agriculture though it's not the only reason for strong farmland values. A major reason for that is the very low interest rates over the last 4 years.

And yes, climate change relating to the alarming amount of co2 we are pumping into the atmosphere.
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:28 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by stevie88 View Post
Of course I have, I'm a farmer. It's been quite good for agriculture though it's not the only reason for strong farmland values. A major reason for that is the very low interest rates over the last 4 years.
Yes I understand. It has not been so good for the consumers of grain.
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:35 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by fred flintstone View Post
Your lawnmower or weed wacker might appreciate richening mixture up a bit.
The weed eater has a tiny carb with a built in pump that operates on crankcase pressure pulses. If the 40:1 fuel mix sits for any length of time, the weed eater engine will require a high speed needle adjustment. But, the carb manufacturer under mandate, I'm sure, uses a D shaped head on the low speed and high speed jet needles so you must order a special tool to facilitate adjusting. Adjust your 2-stroke motor under full throttle so that the engine just goes into 4-stroking.

As for the 4-stroke lawn mower, you're likely outta luck inasmuch as the carbs have fixed jets. Choking is the only means for richening the mixture.
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:49 PM   #45
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And yes, climate change relating to the alarming amount of co2 we are pumping into the atmosphere.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-cut-emissions
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