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Old 06-15-2013, 07:32 AM   #31
Colorado CJ OP
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Well, we are going a different way again.

We are now going to be using our mountain bikes and I will be building a shift kit for them. The 79CC HF motor will have a 11 tooth clutch, going to a jackshaft with a 54tooth gear to a 11 tooth gear. The 11tooth on the end of the jackshaft will be driving a 24 tooth ring gear on the bottom bracket (bottom bracket will be freewheeled), then using the bike chain to drive a Nexus 8 hub.

This will give us a range of speeds, from a low of 12 m.p.h. at 4000 r.p.m. to a high of 39 m.p.h. at 4000 r.p.m.

It should work great! I'll be buying the freewheel conversion parts from SickBikeParts.com and make my own jackshaft/motor mount setup.

Now just to order a few more parts.
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Old 06-15-2013, 04:18 PM   #32
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I used to have one of those 4 stroke chinese kits before I was old enough to drive.

It was ok. But I really wished it had a gears, or a cvt, as it was aweful on hills. Top speed was good, stock 30-36 MPH, after some mods and gearing change it was up to 40-47 MPH. Fast enough with bicycle brakes!

It was on a schwinn jaguar. I put a few thousand miles on it, but then it blew a valve and has been in the shed ever since. I'd like to fix it but don't really have the time right now.


Not to be discourging, but I'd be a little worried taking a 2 stroke chinese engine across the country. I believe your also supposed to let them cool down after an hour or a few I don't remember, after long higher speed rides [for the 2 stroke chinese], and the engines have a short life span, I think the some companies report 10K miles for the 2 stroke on average, which is plenty, but its considerable if your going on long trips. BUT, at least, if you do brake down, you can always peddle! And the 2 strokes are better for peddling I think.


I think the Honda 49 cc would be a really good motor for a bike. Mine was the clone motor. It was ok, but not the best, although it never came with an air filter, probably why it blew up.

I would like to put a bigger motor though, like the Honda 2.8 HP 100 cc [GXH 100 I think?], its still same design verticle cylinder like the 50. Yes, only .3 more HP, but it has a lot more low RPM torque, and with a CVT or gears that would work out well, and would be way better on hills, and would cruise nice at a lower RPM in top ratio, without sounding like it's gonna blow.

Thats cool the shift kit your doing, sounds like a nice wide range of ratios.

But good luck! I certainly hope more than I did! I blown up 3 chinese engines! But if you do the right maintainece and are lucky you should be fine. Keep us posted!
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:17 AM   #33
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It is a 4 stroke. It is an Over Head Cam 79cc Predator engine from Harbor freight. You can pick them up for $80.00 when they are on sale and you have a 20% off coupon. It is an excellent engine, especially for the money, light, small and powerful with a little tweaking.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:42 AM   #34
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Anyone using electric motors!

I'd like to add a kit to my bike to help up hills and such. Not looking for speed or long distance, just a little "nudge" on my rides.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:19 PM   #35
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Electric motors are very expensive and far less efficient than gas motors. A decent electric bike will cost around $1000, and will have low speed and short range, unless you do a lot of pedaling. And they are heavy. The batteries are where all the weight is, and they can be a lot harder to pedal because of it. Imagine trying to pedal a 70 pound bike. You can get cheaper electrics, I believe Walmart has one for around $400, the problem with those is they don't last. Both the motor and batteries fail quickly. I would avoid the Currie drive at all cost, and go with a hub motor. If it has anything that says Currie on it, it is one of the really cheap ones. Check out www.motoredbikes.com for tons of information.

About that HF motor, I don't know how far I would trust it. If/when I build another motorized bike, I'm going to use either the Honda or Robin-Subaru 35cc motor, and they cost around $350. They are legal everywhere a motorized bike is. They put out 1.6 hp, and if used with a geared drive setup, that should be plenty. The 79cc engine is not legal anywhere. AZ has a 48cc limit, and I believe the limit in all states is below 50cc. Last bicycle engine I had was a Tecumseh TCII 48cc 2 stroke, set up with a friction drive, and it blew up after less than 1000 miles. A ring broke and destroyed the piston and cylinder.
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:20 PM   #36
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Over the years, I have built four motorized bikes. Starting with an old Trek 820 mountain bike and a "80cc" chinese frame mount engine. The 80cc engines are really only 66 cc or so. There are NO 80cc two stroke frame mount "happy time" engines, no matter what they might tell you when selling one. The Trek worked out OK, but it was really too light - and I learned a fast painful lesson one night, about proper lighting. You need enough to see where you are going, the wal-mark bike headlights are garbage and will get you killed!

After the Trek bike, I moved the engine to an orange cruiser type bike, and it was much more pleasant to ride. It's top speed was about 27 MPH.

I got a wild hair one day, and my brother had given me a scrap piece of aluminum - it was 2.75" diameter and about 2" long. I turned it into a roller, and using it and a 2.5 HP harbor freight 4 stroke 79cc engine, I built my own. It would run decent, but had issues. Issues were fixed, and I ended up with something truly terrifying. I never found the top speed. It would cruise along without a care in the world at 30 MPH, and at one point I had it up to 40 mph and it still had throttle left. It did not climb hills well, but it's OK I could pedal it up any hill.

I ended up putting the 2 stroke engine back on and removing the four stroke HF engine - I laser cut myself a 36 tooth sprocket, and the top speed increased a bit. It could run 25 without rattling my fillings out.

I saved some money and bought one of the good Golden Eagle belt drive kits - those who say there is no good two stroke, I invite you to try the Tanaka 32cc. Starts first pull every time - even if it has been sitting for months. It will hit 30 mph without a lot of trouble. Wife and I put it on a full suspension bike, and it's a lot of fun.



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Old 06-17-2013, 09:59 PM   #37
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The 2 big issues with the Chinese "happy time", HT, or "China doll" engines, as they are commonly called, are the REALLY flimsy idler roller that clamps to the chain stay, and the rag joint method they use to clamp the rear sprocket to the spokes. When these things fail, and they will, it can lock up the rear wheel, and cause a serious accident. If you want a simple single speed, I recommend a quality friction drive, like from Staton, inc. and a Honda GX35 or Robin-Subaru EHO35 four stroke engine. As long as you don't have to climb steep hills, they are about as bulletproof as you can get. Nothing to go wrong. They just won't work in the rain, because you use the friction between the roller and the rear tire.

For climbing mountains you will have to have some kind of geared setup. A 1.6 hp engine will pull a heavily loaded bike up the side of a mountain with a low enough gear, and still top out at over 30 mph with a high top gear. You can use either derailleur gears or an internally geared hub, like the NuVinci, but those are NOT cheap. They shift much better under load though. A PROPERLY built shifter bike with a jackshaft is VERY reliable if built right, out of quality parts, but it won't be cheap. The cost is mostly what has prevented me from building one. The Golden Eagle setup is good, though it is a single speed, and I would prefer a simpler friction drive for a single speed. You can get good 2 stroke motors, but none of them seem to last as long or have the reliability of a 4 stroke, and for me, noise is an issue. Many people have a problem with a motorized bike, especially the spandex crowd. And if yours is noisy, it makes the problem even worse. They are legal in AZ right now, but irresponsible use could change that.
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:51 PM   #38
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One can drop that motor and 'go with the wind'.



Inventus wins wind powered car race


Quote:
The Inventus car sports a large wind turbine on top of its small frame , and this provides power to make the car go. The wind powered vehicle weighs a whopping 286 pounds before the driver gets in. ( This vehicle won)the Racing Aelus 2008 competition, a wind powered vehicle race.
Wind powered trikes



Quote:
Pterosail is a street-legal recumbent tricycle with sails. It can reach up to 40 mph in good winds. No wind? Pedal.


Quote:
not to be outdone, mercedes benze has designed their own wind powered
land vehicle. ‘formula zero’
is a shiny shark like vehicle which was
designed for the los angeles challenge, a car race that takes
energy
efficiency into account. the design not only features a large solid
sail, but also a solar panel skin
which helps drive sustainable energy
to the wheels.
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:27 PM   #39
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Check all the state laws for any places you want to go. Some states outlaw motorized bicycles completely, some require them to be registered and insured as mopeds, and the operator to have a valid motorcycle/moped license.

I tried to use one of the 2 stroke engines, but never could get it to run, even after putting a ton of work into it. Chinese CDI's are crap!

My mountain bike has a 4 stroke friction drive that works great. It has been very reliable, and doesn't draw the kind of police attention that one of the mid-frame engines would. An engine that is in the frame looks like a motorcycle, and the police treat it like one.

Just remember that it is a bicycle, and is not made to handle high speeds without a lot of modifications. The tires and rims aren't made for the speed and road hazards, and the frames aren't designed for the stresses.

If you make a MB with a front suspension, just remember that a bike suspension is not made for taking high speed cornering either. If you overpower it in the turns, it will dip too far, and could throw you.

They are a lot of fun, if you know their limitations. I'm still waiting for someone to do a RTW trip on one though!

Doug, are you ready for a new challenge?
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Old 06-24-2013, 02:23 PM   #40
JerryH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt Road Cowboy View Post
Check all the state laws for any places you want to go. Some states outlaw motorized bicycles completely, some require them to be registered and insured as mopeds, and the operator to have a valid motorcycle/moped license.

I tried to use one of the 2 stroke engines, but never could get it to run, even after putting a ton of work into it. Chinese CDI's are crap!

My mountain bike has a 4 stroke friction drive that works great. It has been very reliable, and doesn't draw the kind of police attention that one of the mid-frame engines would. An engine that is in the frame looks like a motorcycle, and the police treat it like one.

Just remember that it is a bicycle, and is not made to handle high speeds without a lot of modifications. The tires and rims aren't made for the speed and road hazards, and the frames aren't designed for the stresses.

If you make a MB with a front suspension, just remember that a bike suspension is not made for taking high speed cornering either. If you overpower it in the turns, it will dip too far, and could throw you.

They are a lot of fun, if you know their limitations. I'm still waiting for someone to do a RTW trip on one though!

Doug, are you ready for a new challenge?

To me they are "motor assisted" bicycles. They are not supposed to go 60 mph. Even a $5000+ downhill mountain bike is not designed for that kind of speed, and will come apart. What I like about them is that you can cruise along at 15-20 mph forever without pedaling.

If I build another one, I will use a decent quality steel hardtail mountain bike frame (may have to get that used, as they have almost completely switched over to aluminum for the newer bikes) put a big wide cruiser seat and suspension seatpost on it, and bars high enough to reach without leaning forward. I will use high quality rim brakes front and rear, and high quality wheels. Definitely no Chinese engines, but there are several choices. Frame mounted using a jackshaft, so you can shift gears (this is for climbing, not speed) or a rear mount friction drive setup, or a rear mount belt drive setup, like the Golden Eagle. For frame mounted single speeds, don't use any kind of chainstay mounted rensioner/idler, and don't attach a sprocket to the rear wheel with a rag joint. Both are guaranteed to fail, and can cause a serious accident. You can buy heavy duty rear wheels with the motor drive sprocket already attached to the hub.


Really, if you want to go faster than 20 mph, a bicycle is not the best way to do it. Get a moped or scooter.
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:46 PM   #41
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My 4 stroke friction drive will go 18-22mph all day, and that's good enough for my mountain bike. As you said, it is an assist for when I don't feel like pedaling.

A rear mount/friction drive can also be hidden behind some false touring bags to operate in stealth mode.

Those little gas tanks they come with won't get you very far either. I carry a couple of the 30 oz MSR fuel bottles for extra gas, but I want to set up something more permanent that runs direct to the engine.

I do need to get my motorcycles going again though. I miss riding them.
Too much of "life" has been coming up lately.

My CT90 frame looks at me every time I go into the workshop, just begging for the 140 Lifan engine to go in.

I guess I need to just get busy!
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Old 06-25-2013, 06:43 PM   #42
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I think the big problem with the Chinese 2 stroke bike conversion kits is that the engines are old school, iron linered cylinders with a need for careful break-in treatment for the first few hundred miles.

We've been using chrome cylinder 2 stroke engines for years that you can basically run nearly WOT straight out of the box, so that it's a bit unusual to have to consider a break-in period for a new small engine like this.


I'd be using a smidgen more oil in the premix and trying to richen the jetting to keep it running cool.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:33 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
The 2 big issues with the Chinese "happy time", HT, or "China doll" engines, as they are commonly called, are the REALLY flimsy idler roller that clamps to the chain stay, and the rag joint method they use to clamp the rear sprocket to the spokes.
If you google Chinese "happy time" and "China doll", you don't get these results at all.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:46 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YamaGeek View Post
I think the big problem with the Chinese 2 stroke bike conversion kits is that the engines are old school, iron linered cylinders with a need for careful break-in treatment for the first few hundred miles.

We've been using chrome cylinder 2 stroke engines for years that you can basically run nearly WOT straight out of the box, so that it's a bit unusual to have to consider a break-in period for a new small engine like this.


I'd be using a smidgen more oil in the premix and trying to richen the jetting to keep it running cool.
The reason you need to break in a 2 Stroke still is that where new rings go past the ports, you have hard angle meeting hard angle, even on nikasil or chromed cylinders. Over the first few hours, this contact area wears smooth. That's where the rings usually break on a new engine if it's not broken in right. Chamfering the ports will help it break in better, and most high end cylinders, at least out of Italy, are finished by hand to a certain extent. But you still need to be easy on a new 2 Stroke top end.
Suzuki did a study on 2 Strokes and found that they break in after about 4-5 hours.
We always premix at 30-50 to one and use the oil injector for the first tank or two. And if I want a motor to last a long time, I let my wife, who's first question about a new bike is not, "how fast will that go?" ride it for a couple of days.
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:46 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOPED MEDIC View Post
If you google Chinese "happy time" and "China doll", you don't get these results at all.

"Rock Solid Engines has an optional Walbro kit for Happy Time/China Girl engines"

This post is from a motorized bicycle forum. On all these forums, the cheap 2 stroke frame mount Chinese engine kits in either 48cc and 66cc (sometimes referred to as 80cc but displace only 66cc) are referred to as an HT (Happy Time) or China Doll/China Girl engine. These engines have many brand names, but all are the same design, which started out as a "Grubee" engine. They are extremely cheap, both in price and quality. Average life of one of these engines is under 1000 miles. They are a universal fit, and do not properly fit newer bikes with large diameter downtubes. They use a flimsy "rag joint" to attach the motor driven sprocket to the right side spokes in the rear wheel. It is very hard to get centered, and often comes loose. They use an even flimsier "tensioner" or "idler pulley" clamped to the chain stay to keep the motor chain from flopping around. Because the chainstay is at an angle to the rear sprocket, it is common for the chain to come off or break the pulley, get hung up on the bracket, and pull it into the spokes of the rear wheel. It happened to me. The tensioner bracket is so flimsy it can be easily bent with your hands.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3416/...ac9afda4_o.jpg This is a typical HT, Happy Time, China Girl bicycle engine kit. The rear drive sprocket is on the upper right, the "rag joint" mount is below and to the left of it, and the "tensioner" roller and bracket is to the left of that. The plastic pulley is about the same as what you would find on a sliding screen door. The metal bracket can be bent double with your hands, but will still lock up the rear wheel. You can usually get these kits for under $200 with free shipping. I consider them a death trap. These engines can reach up to 30 mph, and going down at that speed is not fun. And to make matters worse, people usually put these engines on a $70 Walmart bike with nothing but a rear coaster brake.
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