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Old 06-05-2013, 02:12 PM   #16
mcma111
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Hydrogen Embrittlement

The dumb fucks at Caltrans spec'ed out Zinc coated bolts for the new eastern half of the San Francisco Bay bridge. Even though all of the bridge builders/metallurgists in the USA say not to use these bolts due to Hydrogen Embrittlement. There are a shit load of bolts and rods that have already broken or cracked and they want to open the bridge for service Memorial Day weekend. Not gonna happen. Some of these bolts are deep inside the structure and can not be removed or accessed. Back to the drawing board ya fucks.
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Old 06-05-2013, 02:15 PM   #17
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Oxalic acid (also known as wood bleach) does an excellent job on steel and chrome.
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:45 AM   #18
H96669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 396 View Post
Cool process, but after reading about the hydrogen being formed and released from the surface of the steel, it sparked my memory. I've had some grade 8 bolts fail in the past due to "hydrogen embrittlement" It's a process where the steel ends up with microscopic pressure points than can lead to cracking. It might not apply here, but I don't think I would try this on a drive chain.

From Wiki:
Hydrogen embrittlement is the process by which various metals, most importantly high-strength steel, become brittle and fracture following exposure to hydrogen. Hydrogen embrittlement is often the result of unintentional introduction of hydrogen into susceptible metals during forming or finishing operations and increases cracking in the material. This phenomenon was first described in 1875.[1]



Hydrogen embrittlement can occur during various manufacturing operations or operational use - anywhere that the metal comes into contact with atomic or molecular hydrogen. Processes that can lead to this include cathodic protection, phosphating, pickling, and electroplating.
I think I'll go remove my hi-grade chain from the pickling juice. I do use them under very high tension, no need to fracture that one and send it flying at high speed. That was like a gunshot when I saw that happen years ago, went off so fast it could have killed someone.
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:15 AM   #19
HanShotFirst
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To be quite honest, you don't need the salt, the white vinegar does all the work.

It doesnít remove rust real fast, give it a good 30-45 minutes, but it will do the job.

Iím a gunsmith and I use a white vinegar/water mix to chemically remove bluing on guns before I polish them and re-blue. Bluing on guns is just a controlled rusting, so anything that removes bluing will remove rust. Itís not uber-fast, but itís cheap and requires no elbow grease.

But something else to consider. That rusted chain in the photos could be turned into bluing. Take the rusted chain just as it is and boil it in water for 10 mintes. Take it out, and cover the whole thing in WD40 and it will take on a black finish. The WD40 will stop the rusting process and now you have a chain with a semi-protective finish. Better than de-rusting it.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:58 PM   #20
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I've used vinegar for many years now. Works fine. Never used salt in it, and I can't figure out any reason to. Though I may give it a comparison try with some rusty bolts or such. For the action you show in the pictures is mighty fast and frothy for vinegar.

For even faster and stronger acid action, use something like oxalic acid or such, deck cleaner from the hardware store. Though I personally like the gentleness and easy disposal of vinegar.

As for evaporust and such, it's a different process, and is slower. You can do it cheaply if you go buy a 50 bag of beet pulp from the feed store. You can make a whopping big batch that way. Stinks like you wouldn't believe after a few weeks though.
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:13 PM   #21
HanShotFirst
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Yeah, you can speed things up with other acids. Muriatic acid in liquid form that you find at a swimming pool supply store will do a number on rust, but it will also remove the zinc plating on something like a chain or bolts. So when you remove the rust, you need to have a plan on what youíre going to do to prevent future rusting.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:10 PM   #22
mjskier
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try electrolysis...

For smaller parts you could try electrolysis as explained here for example (or google "rust removal electrolysis")
http://www.lockwatcher.com/woodworking/rustremoval.php

Worked really good for me on a small lathe somebody donated:

Before:



After:

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Old 06-08-2013, 10:08 AM   #23
H96669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HanShotFirst View Post
To be quite honest, you don't need the salt, the white vinegar does all the work.

It doesnít remove rust real fast, give it a good 30-45 minutes, but it will do the job.

Iím a gunsmith and I use a white vinegar/water mix to chemically remove bluing on guns before I polish them and re-blue. Bluing on guns is just a controlled rusting, so anything that removes bluing will remove rust. Itís not uber-fast, but itís cheap and requires no elbow grease.

But something else to consider. That rusted chain in the photos could be turned into bluing. Take the rusted chain just as it is and boil it in water for 10 mintes. Take it out, and cover the whole thing in WD40 and it will take on a black finish. The WD40 will stop the rusting process and now you have a chain with a semi-protective finish. Better than de-rusting it.
Very interesting....I do a little blueing, not typically on guns but on antique tools I sometimes restore. Gotta try that technique now.

I have done the vinegar only, cleaning vinegar vs Evaporust on two identical BMW parts. Cheaper is slightly better.

Pickling juice "salt/vinegar", I lined up an old tank yesterday and a real bad one at that. Will try, may take it to work we have lots of vinegar there(Too much....overstocked). Lots of seawater too.....may not have to use up the salt.

But the pickling juice....2 days and the rust is falling right off that old steel shell.I was a bit late at the garage sale, someone picked up the brass ones but that's fine I already know how well salt/vinegar works on corroded brass.

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Old 06-08-2013, 11:14 AM   #24
Stan_R80/7
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I generally use phosphoric acid (i.e. etch-n-prep or naval jelly). Phosphoric acid reacts with the iron oxide to form (black) ferric phosphate on the surface which is rust resistant. If it were a precision component or tool, the electrolysis technique would be preferred. But, for most small rusty parts (e.g. seat cover screws) phosphoric acid is my rust remover.
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:05 PM   #25
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Rust removal using molasses and water mixed 9:1

How it's done down under...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-gBA...47kPw&index=18
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:43 AM   #26
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Not sure yet if Vinegar/salt is any better than vinegar only. Will have to reset my experiments.

But what I know for sure is that Vinegar/salt stinks.Do that outside. Save the old solution, that's a heck of a good weedkiller. And slugs.....!
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:16 AM   #27
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I mixed up some white vinegar and sea salt, put a couple of rusted parts in overnight, does not work very fast, not too much happened, some flakes in the bottom of the container, Evaporust works faster but is more expensive.
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:30 PM   #28
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stink and cost

I used the washing soda and battery charger to derust cast iron pans, smells bad . The water became the slipperiest slimiest stuff I can remember ,except maybe 6 " of moldy beer in basement of brewery .
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:21 AM   #29
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This is one of those threads that I mentally bookmarked. Last week I thought I would give it a try on a 50-ft sewer snake hose that was getting enough scaly surface rust that it wasn't nearly as flexible (important in a sewer snake) as it should be. Tightly wound in a coil, this snake is still big enough to fill a 5-gallon pail. Filling this pail with Evaporust would have been expensive, so instead I went to the local Smart & Final and picked up 3 x 2 gallon bottles of vinegar. Total cost ~ $10. I didn't take any before and after photos, but they look essentially the same as JVB's post. I have to say, this technique is something else and I highly recommend it. I might try molasses in the future if I happen to come by some food-grade material. The stuff I learn on this forum....
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Old 09-19-2013, 11:55 AM   #30
disston
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I removed some rust from a couple of clamps on the carbs of my bike and 4 bolts on the handlebar. Did this last week with phosphoric acid. Now they are worse, more rusted, than they were the week before. I got no protection from further rusting.

I'm going to try again. Maybe I didn't let it sit in the acid solution long enough?
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