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Old 06-07-2013, 11:17 AM   #16
JimVonBaden
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Originally Posted by Offcamber View Post
No disrespect but this argument is like burying your head in the sand. How many times have we heard from officials....if your not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about its an intrusion and in my opinion goes against the 4th amendment...

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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Basically the Right to be left alone....

Where in what you quoted does it say they cannot ask you for your driver's liscense? Right to not be "searched" is not the same as asking to show proof you are legally riding on a motorcycle.

You are making the law say what you want it to say, not what it does.

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Old 06-07-2013, 11:30 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
That is such crap! No one complains when the Border Patrol stops every car at the 25 mile checkpoint looking for illegals, been done forever.

I reiterate, what rights to privacy are you giving up? You are showing nothing other than you have the appropriate documents to be legally riding a motorcycle on the streets, AS THE LAW STATES YOU MUST AT ALL TIMES!

Comparring this to the holocaust is such crap. It only makes you look like a paranoid fool!

Jim

I assume you are talking about the check points with in the US and not at the borders...I do not approve of that, its the same thing...no reason to stop me or anyone else. I never saw the point of those anyway....seems like a drag net approach....catch everything and hope you get something worth while....doesn't seem cost effective.

They only get away with this because you're in (or on) a vehicle...apparently when you get a licenses in this country you have to give up some of your rights...

His example may have been a bit extreme but its the attitude that I'm compliant so I have no problem with it doesn't wash....its like the current scandal with the Government getting every Verizon customers phone records....Sorry they have no reason to be looking at my phone records...Call me paranoid but I don't trust our Government to do the right thing.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:32 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Where in what you quoted does it say they cannot ask you for your driver's liscense? Right to not be "searched" is not the same as asking to show proof you are legally riding on a motorcycle.

You are making the law say what you want it to say, not what it does.

Jim

Wow...this really is disturbing....
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:32 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
So long as they do not lecture anyone, they can stop you for a safety check if they want as far as I am concerned.

Personally I do not care as long as it doesn't hold me up for long. I have a license and insurance, and my bike is properly registered. I also always wear a helmet. :shrug

Jim

Is 30-40 minutes considered long to you? That's a typical length of delay at one of these checkpoints.

All motorcycles are pulled off the highway. You stop, wait, and queue. Eventually, if you have all your papers, your gear is spot on, and you pass a road-side inspection (all your lights working? visible "DOT" stamp on exhaust?) you'll be freed to go on your way.

If you have, say, a broken turn indicator, it is not at all uncommon for your motorcycle to be loaded into a flatbed, and you walk with your helmet in hand to the train station. "Fix it" tickets are not always given out to motorcyclists.

Good piece of advice if you get culled in a checkpoint: Be sure to be REEEEEAL polite to the police. Don't go mouthing off about your "rights" or they may just find a broken bit you didn't know about, and tow you.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
That is such crap! No one complains when the Border Patrol stops every car at the 25 mile checkpoint looking for illegals, been done forever.

I reiterate, what rights to privacy are you giving up? You are showing nothing other than you have the appropriate documents to be legally riding a motorcycle on the streets, AS THE LAW STATES YOU MUST AT ALL TIMES!

Comparring this to the holocaust is such crap. It only makes you look like a paranoid fool!

Jim
Some people, those with principles and who remember what liberty is about, DO complain about when the Border Patrol stops every car at the 25 mile checkpoint looking for illegals. That's wrong, and a violation of our rights and the 4th Amendment, as well. It's not the holocaust, no. But it's the slippery slope, and the principle is the same -- we have to help defend each others' rights, all of them, or there will be no one to help defend ours.

Just "showing nothing other than you have the appropriate documents", eh? What else began with "show me your papers"?

PhilB
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:49 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
Some people, those with principles and who remember what liberty is about, DO complain about when the Border Patrol stops every car at the 25 mile checkpoint looking for illegals. That's wrong, and a violation of our rights and the 4th Amendment, as well. It's not the holocaust, no. But it's the slippery slope, and the principle is the same -- we have to help defend each others' rights, all of them, or there will be no one to help defend ours.

Just "showing nothing other than you have the appropriate documents", eh? What else began with "show me your papers"?

PhilB
So you say "not the holocaust," then parrot the same old tired lines referencing the Holocaust!

I get the feeling some of you should live in the mountains of Montanna off the grid with your guns!

Seriously, I do not like the checkpoints anymore than anyone else, but to make it into the next coming of the Holocaust is more than a bit of a stretch!

If you do not like the laws, get them changed. If you do not wish to comply with a legal process, don't ride on the streets, or deal with the consequences.

I see so many complain about the violation of their rights while riding an illegally modified bike, or no insurance, or no license, and I just don't get it.

Jim
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:54 AM   #22
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Why don't they stop cars?(Edit: I meant at this sort of check point. AFAIK, they don't do checkpoints to check automobiles for "safety" issues like brake pad thickness, seat belt usage, etc.)

The number of people that would complain would be much higher if they did something similar for automobiles. The program would end very quickly if government representatives were deluged with telephone calls.


My guess it is a crackdown on a group of people (motorcyclists) who as a group have too many members that violate the laws, at least in terms of licensing and equipment, such as an exhaust that is too loud. As a minority, motorcyclists are getting picked on. But, we do seem to give thee authorities something to profit from.

New York, like many other states needs more revenue. People don't want to pay more taxes or have less government service. So states look for money where they can.
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Riteris screwed with this post 06-08-2013 at 05:32 AM
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:09 PM   #23
JimVonBaden
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Actually, they do stop cars, DUI checkpoints, Tax and registration sticker compliance and other kinds.

None the less, I see Jo momma in this thread's future. I doubt I will change anyone's minds, and I doubt mine will be changed either. Maybe this belongs in CSM!

Jim
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:25 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Actually, they do stop cars, DUI checkpoints, Tax and registration sticker compliance and other kinds.

None the less, I see Jo momma in this thread's future. I doubt I will change anyone's minds, and I doubt mine will be changed either. Maybe this belongs in CSM!

Jim

I'm against DUI check points as well ( and they stop everyone not just cars)....never seen a check point for passenger car other than DUI....I guess they have them for seat belts but my understanding is they just look and see if your wearing it an wave you through (still BS).

They can write any law that violates the Constitution and it will stand unless someone fights.....


I don't see any reason for JM not seeing any name calling....
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:34 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Actually, they do stop cars, DUI checkpoints, Tax and registration sticker compliance and other kinds.

None the less, I see Jo momma in this thread's future. I doubt I will change anyone's minds, and I doubt mine will be changed either. Maybe this belongs in CSM!

Jim


JM? Great. I call that "my front porch."

I didn't think you had a particular position. I never heard back from you on the amount of delay you find acceptable. Rest-assured, that is based on the experiences of people who have actually gone through it -- not theory.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:56 PM   #26
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motorcycle check points in CA are no longer legal.

instead they will pull you over for infractions they can see or hear.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:06 PM   #27
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Land of the free, huh?!
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:18 PM   #28
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Is there a type of location or road/street these checkpoints are more likely to appear?

For example, there would never be one around Union Square (I assume). But, are they normally near exit ramps, or bridge/tunnel entrances (where it's impossible to avoid)? I don't have much to hide, but would rather avoid them, when possible.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:29 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
So you say "not the holocaust," then parrot the same old tired lines referencing the Holocaust!

I get the feeling some of you should live in the mountains of Montanna off the grid with your guns!

Seriously, I do not like the checkpoints anymore than anyone else, but to make it into the next coming of the Holocaust is more than a bit of a stretch!

If you do not like the laws, get them changed. If you do not wish to comply with a legal process, don't ride on the streets, or deal with the consequences.

I see so many complain about the violation of their rights while riding an illegally modified bike, or no insurance, or no license, and I just don't get it.

Jim
Yep, because the only two choices are (a) be a complete abject bootlicker, or (b) live off the grid in a compound. Just because you have chosen (a) doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees with that must be in camp (b).

PhilB
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Actually, they do stop cars, DUI checkpoints, Tax and registration sticker compliance and other kinds.

None the less, I see Jo momma in this thread's future. I doubt I will change anyone's minds, and I doubt mine will be changed either. Maybe this belongs in CSM!

Jim
And those checkpoints are equally wrong, equally a violation of our rights, equally un-Constitutional. The police are not supposed to stop ANYONE unless they have a definable "reasonable suspicion" or "probable cause" to stop *that* specific individual.

That's what the 4th Amendment is all about. When the police may stop people without cause, just to check, you have moved a large distance away from liberty and toward a police state.

PhilB
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