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Old 06-19-2013, 06:28 PM   #1
indr OP
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[HELP] No spark!!! (Ninja 250)

The bike is a 2010 Ninja 250 which has just been attempted to start after a year of being totally disassembled and worked on (by your's truly).

I have wired everything up. Nothing extra, just connections to the IC Igniter and starter relay. Enough to start the bike to see if it runs.

It doesn't. I push the starter button, the motor turns, but there is no spark.

The way I checked that there is no spark is I pulled one of the plugs out, attached it to it's boot and pushed the starter button. I didn't see any arcing on the plug, and there therefore concluded that there is no spark.

Q1: Is this a good way to check if there is spark or not?

I Googled "ninja 250r no spark" and came across this post on another forum: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=95179

The OP's problem turned out to be the pick up coil placed ass backwards. Which is what I'm thinking my problem might be, too.

Q2: Is the pick up coil the same as the crank sensor?

I.E. When I had the alternator cover opened up ages ago, there was a little thing with a little round magnet embedded into it. It sat in a groove inside the alternator cover. It had two wires comming out of it (yellow and black) that are connected to the IC igniter. In the manual, these are labelled as the crank sensor wires. I'm guessing they are responsible for detecting the position of the crankshaft when it's rotating and sending out a signal to the IC, which then decides when to fire the spark plug.

Q3: Are the above assumptions correct?

Q4: If so, would placing the little crank sensor with it's ass facing the coils, instead of it's head, have an effect on spark?

So, if the position of the crank determines when the little sensor is activated, I should be able to hook up a multimeter with a continuity tester mode, connected them to the yellow and black wires, turn the engine over manually, and get a continuity at certain and specific points during the stroke. And if I

Q5: Is this above assumption correct? And am I looking at the right thing in the manual for the reading I should be getting:



In a short while, I will also post a diagram of the very simple wiring for review by you folks.

Cheers.
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:42 PM   #2
concours
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kill switch, sidestand switch, etc. not wired, or not in the correct state.
Did you GROUND the plug's threads when checking?
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:44 PM   #3
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Here is the circuit diagram.



A very simplified version of this:
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concours View Post
kill switch, sidestand switch, etc. not wired, or not in the correct state.
Did you GROUND the plug's threads when checking?
No, I did not ground the plug's threads. I did not I know that I'm supposed to, will try and report back.

There are no other switches, with the wiring the way it is right now.
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:50 PM   #5
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Checking for spark

"The way I checked that there is no spark is I pulled one of the plugs out, attached it to it's boot and pushed the starter button. I didn't see any arcing on the plug, and there therefore concluded that there is no spark."

You've got one end of the plug in the boot but what are you doing with the plug? If you're just letting it dangle in the air, you won't get a spark 'cause the circuit isn't complete; you have to ground the plug.

Plugs are designed to ground through the head when it's screwed in. You need to connect the threaded part to something that's grounded (and preferably someplace that isn't in bright sunlight, either).

For a few bucks, you can get a plug tester at the auto store; the one I've got has a boot on one end and a plug on the other with a light in the middle. Neat thing about this is that you can plug it in and leave it while you're testing. Works real nice when you think you might have an intermittent spark issue.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:02 PM   #6
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My spark tester wised up,
I use to tell my little brother hold on to this metal I stuck in the spark plug boot, tell him to steady himself by holding on to something metal on the bike.
I would kick it over, if he screamed, I knew I had spark.
And if you take the plug out the motor spins faster, makes a bigger spark, he learned.

*Gmoney* screwed with this post 06-19-2013 at 07:08 PM
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:24 PM   #7
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Okay. There IS A SPARK

I can also feel air pressure out of the exhaust. So, I'm thinking that fuel isn't reaching the cylinders and this is a carburettor related problem.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:45 PM   #8
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I also have a feeling that the carb bowls might be overfilled.

Because:

I have an inline see-thru fuel filter. In it, I can see gasoline lingering (i.e. it's not made it's way down to the bowls.)

So, if the bowls are filled to the top, could this result in the bike not starting?
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:01 PM   #9
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There should be a drain screw to drain the carb bowl if it is not seized, to see if you are getting gas that far.
If it is seized then you are going to be removing carb and cleaning main jets idle jets choke circuit etc.
Google ninja carbs should help you videos etc.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:10 PM   #10
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Get some starting fluid and shoot it in the carbs and see if the bike starts up. If it starts and then dies then you know it is a fuel delivery issue. However, if you shoot it with fluid and it does not at least hit a little bit then you know to look elsewhere.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:22 PM   #11
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I'm getting it feeling that the fuel isn't reaching the cylinders at all. Because: I just drained two full bowls. This is after attempting to crank the engine numerous times. So, if fuel WAS reaching the cylinders what I drained shouldn't have been THAT much.

What I think might be the cause is when I disassembled the carbs (months ago), I left the diaphragm sitting out and they hardened. And now, they are not pliable enough to work the slides. Which lifts the needle and lets the fuel in.

It's either that or a vacuum issue. But, I have checked and double checked the hoses.

Greasemonkey, when you say shoot the carbs with starter fluid, you mean from the airbox side?
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:43 PM   #12
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Yes, not much just a 1 second shot or so. That will let you know if it is a fuel issue as the engine will start and then die but at least you will know then it is a fuel problem.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:12 AM   #13
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It sounds like the carbs need a full cleaning/rebuild. There are many stories of old gas doing bad things to carbs. I'd be shocked if any rubber parts from 2010 (did I read that right?) are bad and hard form old age, but all bets are off if you used the wrong chemicals to clean them. Also, any rubber parts are, of course, vulnerable to scratching, scoring, gouging, etc. from poor dis-assembly technique. Don't worry, I'm sure we've all trashed a good part at some time. After you've taken something apart: "oh, THAT is how it was supposed to come apart."
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:28 AM   #14
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The carbs are freshly cleaned and rebuilt. Same with the engine, new piston rings, valves adjusted, etc.

I am going to try the starter fluid method next. If that tells me that it's a fuel delivery issue, I'll be taking the carbs apart.

If not, the only other possibility is poor compression, right?
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:11 PM   #15
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Okay. I sprayed starter fluid into the air intake (the air box snorkle) and attempted a start. No go. :(
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