ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Beasts
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-04-2014, 05:33 PM   #1
mridefellow OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Oddometer: 10
Adventure-tourers vs. Road-only motorcycles

Right now I have a mid-sized Honda cruiser. I'm definitely interested in upgrading bikes in the future. I'm not sure whether it'll be a road bike or an adventure-tourer, hence this post.

I'm familiar with motorcycles but understand the adventure-tourers the least amount of all bikes.

Basically, I'm wondering how much a person gains in gravel roads, dirt roads, and packed trails with adventure-tourer bikes such as the Yamaha Tenere, BMW GS, and Suzuki V-Strom (1000cc model) over street bikes like a Harley Sportster, Yamaha FZ8, Suzuki Z1000, etc? I know the adventure bikes are better, but how much so for the mentioned roads that aren't slab?

On the pavement when it is raining, how much better are the adv-tourers?

For the above, lets assume none of the bikes have anti-lock brakes or traction control. It makes it easier to understand the essence of the machines. Lets also assume the adventure-tourer models are wearing 90% road, 10% off-road tires, which I'm guessing is stock from the factory.

The flip side of above is how much a person is losing in pavement capability with an adventure-tourer instead of a street-only bike? I guess power and handling. It seems the motorcycle journalists find them a bit bland on pavement.

Cheers and ride safe, all.
mridefellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 09:27 PM   #2
byron555
Lame Duck Adventurer
 
byron555's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Oddometer: 1,051
Adv vs street

While I cannot compare rain/wind protection from an Adventure bike to a street bike, since I really have never owned (or ridden) a true street bike. For me it is a no brainner. I want all road capability (light trails too). Some of the best riding I have done is just, randomly, taking a right or left here or there, and let the gps sort it out on my way to a destination. I have only owned dual sports myself by the way. I have ridden street bikes, and find the ergos cramped (I'm 5'10") the control is lacking familiarity. Upright bikes are very natural, easy and fun to ride.

The new adventure bikes are the best of everything. My dad has a Ducati Multistrada 1200. The thing can rail corners and easily handle a raining wet Georgian gravel road.... and that is a road oriented ADV bike. Me, I'd get a Super Tenere if I had the money. Until then the WR250r will have to do
__________________
Another inmate stole my Avatar...
WR250R... 15 cubic inches of raw power.
WRr re-build
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=997633
byron555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 10:25 PM   #3
prince
Adventurer
 
prince's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Oddometer: 70
you can think of it as driving a comfortable or sporty sedan, street bike vs a driving a SUV with great off road capabilities, adv bikes. Of course just as street bikes have many different types so doe adv bikes, ie comfort , off road capabilities etc...if you've never ridden one, i urge you to do so, you won't regret it.
__________________
07 KTM 990 adv
06 Triumph Scrambler
04 1150 GSA (sold)
02 1150 GS ( crashed and stolen)
00 750 Ducati monster ( sold)
prince is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 11:41 PM   #4
Gryphon12
Beastly Adventurer
 
Gryphon12's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Carnation, WA USA
Oddometer: 1,198
To over-simplify a bit, the primary differences are in the chassis: Rake, Trail, and wheel-base, coupled with suspension travel.

The adventure tourers have relaxed rake, matching trail, and longer wheel-bases. This give them slower but more forgiving handling qualities for gravel, dirt, and trails. Added suspension travel, and suspension tuned for bigger bumps (as opposed to high speed cornering stability on asphalt) round out the primary changes. And yes, in my opinion, on dirt and gravel they are significant.

The current trend has been for the newer adventure tourers to take market share from traditional Sport-tourers, which is why Ducati tries to market the Multi-Strada 1200 as both and ADV tourer and a Sport-tourer. This doesn't work for me, but it does for a majority of the market.

It also helps that if you are riding lots of freeway (in the US), adventure tourers don't give up much in the handling department, because handling issues aren't prevalent on the highway. On tighter, twisty mountain and back roads, however, the street bike and sport-tourer (and SM) have some advantages.

In most of the current threads, it seems that All Roads adventure tourers are gaining ground on traditional street bikes for general touring, and they seem to commute well too. Lots to like; not much to complain about unless you ride aggressively on asphalt.

All things being equal, ABS and tires provide the same advantages in both categories. You should always match your tire selection with your riding style, and 90/10 tires are really good on pavement these days, and within that category you have lots of choices for tread pattern, rain handling, and wear characteristics, not to mention profile which affects handling (like turn-in). Essentially, the tire discussion becomes somewhat separate from the bike selection question.

The counter point might be made that bikes like Honda CB350s and Triumph Bonnevilles went pretty much everywhere in the 1960s through the early 1980s, as did the UJMs that followed. If you are really riding all-road conditions (dirt and gravel), the newer ADV bikes offer some advantages, but ride a lot of bikes and choose what feels right to you.
__________________
1990 Honda NT-650 Hawk-GT

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world;
indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. - Margaret Mead

Gryphon12 screwed with this post 07-04-2014 at 11:55 PM
Gryphon12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 04:59 AM   #5
Soldier311
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Location: Eastern NC
Oddometer: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
To over-simplify a bit, the primary differences are in the chassis: Rake, Trail, and wheel-base, coupled with suspension travel.

The adventure tourers have relaxed rake, matching trail, and longer wheel-bases. This give them slower but more forgiving handling qualities for gravel, dirt, and trails. Added suspension travel, and suspension tuned for bigger bumps (as opposed to high speed cornering stability on asphalt) round out the primary changes. And yes, in my opinion, on dirt and gravel they are significant.

The current trend has been for the newer adventure tourers to take market share from traditional Sport-tourers, which is why Ducati tries to market the Multi-Strada 1200 as both and ADV tourer and a Sport-tourer. This doesn't work for me, but it does for a majority of the market.

It also helps that if you are riding lots of freeway (in the US), adventure tourers don't give up much in the handling department, because handling issues aren't prevalent on the highway. On tighter, twisty mountain and back roads, however, the street bike and sport-tourer (and SM) have some advantages.

In most of the current threads, it seems that All Roads adventure tourers are gaining ground on traditional street bikes for general touring, and they seem to commute well too. Lots to like; not much to complain about unless you ride aggressively on asphalt.

All things being equal, ABS and tires provide the same advantages in both categories. You should always match your tire selection with your riding style, and 90/10 tires are really good on pavement these days, and within that category you have lots of choices for tread pattern, rain handling, and wear characteristics, not to mention profile which affects handling (like turn-in). Essentially, the tire discussion becomes somewhat separate from the bike selection question.

The counter point might be made that bikes like Honda CB350s and Triumph Bonnevilles went pretty much everywhere in the 1960s through the early 1980s, as did the UJMs that followed. If you are really riding all-road conditions (dirt and gravel), the newer ADV bikes offer some advantages, but ride a lot of bikes and choose what feels right to you.
Very good explanation there. Thanks, Gryphon.
__________________
"It's more fun to ride a slow girl fast than a fast girl slow."
1999 DR350SEX
Soldier311 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 05:54 AM   #6
dragos
Belzebut
 
dragos's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Europe (Romania, Germany, UK)
Oddometer: 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by mridefellow View Post
It seems the motorcycle journalists find them a bit bland on pavement.

Cheers and ride safe, all.
I guess it depends a lot on what bikes you are looking at specifically. I don't think I've seen any review describing bikes like the KTM 1190 Adv or the Multistrada as bland, quite the opposite, the word "superbike" seems to be everywhere when describing those.
dragos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 08:00 AM   #7
Pecha72
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Oddometer: 3,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragos View Post
I guess it depends a lot on what bikes you are looking at specifically. I don't think I've seen any review describing bikes like the KTM 1190 Adv or the Multistrada as bland, quite the opposite, the word "superbike" seems to be everywhere when describing those.
Multi1200 & KTM1190 are the sportiest. But the new GS1200 is no slouch on twisty tarmac, the same goes for Tiger Explorer, and many other bikes in this category. Not superbike kind of power, but there's still plenty, and they don't mind, if surface is less than perfect.
__________________
Countries ridden FIN SWE NOR DK EE LV LT POL SK HU RO BG GR IT AT DE CZ CH SMR LIE NL BE FR AND ES GBR LUX SI HR BIH SRB MK TR IR PAK IND TH KH LA MY ID AUS CR USA ZA LS SWZ MZ NA BW ZM ZW
Pecha72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 08:23 AM   #8
Titan1969
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Titan1969's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Oddometer: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by prince View Post
you can think of it as driving a comfortable or sporty sedan, street bike vs a driving a SUV with great off road capabilities, adv bikes. Of course just as street bikes have many different types so doe adv bikes, ie comfort , off road capabilities etc...if you've never ridden one, i urge you to do so, you won't regret it.
Yep, I had sportbikes for many years never road dirt bikes. Then after enough of carnage with buddies and myself on sportbikes, I made a change to adventure riding. Sold off my high powered bikes for a slowwwwww boring Vstrom 650.,,well so I thought.

The first time I off-roaded ( lol just a fire road ) and got off the slab and saw so many new things ( instead of a blurr at 150+ mph ) I was hooked.

Whatever you pick, buy it cheap, plan on dropping it, get GREAT protective gear for the bike and yourself....and get ready for a lot of fun and adventure.

I paid $3800 for my Vstrom with 5000 miles and it was 4 years old. I put $2,000 worth of farkles on it and I was off seeing the other 99% of the roads in the world. ( see my sig video )

good luck to you sir.
__________________
"There is only ever the present, the now, so enjoy it rather than thinking about whats next."
'08 WeeStrom
YouTube Ride from CA to AK....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW6T2U12wmI
Titan1969 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 12:43 PM   #9
Burninator
Zed's dead
 
Burninator's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Eugene, OR
Oddometer: 295
Excellent, well written and thoughtful post by Gryphon12. The best advice is try and ride as many bikes as you can.

My bike history includes dual-sports (XR400, DR650), ADVbikes (Tiger, V-Strom) and a retro UJM (W650). I've ridden sport bikes and cruisers too. In my opinion, ADV style bikes are the swiss army knife of bikes. They tour well, commute well, and perform well both on paved and unpaved roads. Because I only keep one bike at a time, I find my V-Stom 650 to be a smart choice as it covers all the bases for me.

A little shameless bike pic whoring...
[IMG][/IMG]
__________________
"Embrace the horror." ==RonS
Burninator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 02:40 PM   #10
STage
Advwriter
 
Joined: Dec 2013
Location: Northern front range, Colorado
Oddometer: 16
"The counter point might be made that bikes like Honda CB350s and Triumph Bonnevilles went pretty much everywhere in the 1960s through the early 1980s, as did the UJMs that followed. If you are really riding all-road conditions (dirt and gravel), the newer ADV bikes offer some advantages, but ride a lot of bikes and choose what feels right to you."
So true. This summer I have been joyfully riding Colorado's Forest roads, 4wd trails, and paved magnificence on a '81 CM400C that I got at a yard sale for $500. It still has street tires, and I can still go up and do moderate 4wd stuff.
Right now, it is the perfect bike because it EXISTS, and I ride it.
Attached Images
 
STage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 04:39 PM   #11
itsatdm
Beastly Adventurer
 
itsatdm's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Nor Ca.
Oddometer: 4,412
Gryphon 12 gave you a very good explanation.

To me it was ergos. You have a more upright sitting position and most are taller than street bikes so you get a pretty good view.

Adventure bikes seems to get lumped together no matter what the suspension travel is or ground clearance. Generally the more the bike has of both, the better it will be off road. It will have more steering trail and either a 19" or 21" front wheel, both slow the steering down. so not as quick in the corners as a sports touring bike. It does make them more stable in dirt.

Those in the 800/1200 class are certainly not slugs, they just don't have to rev high to make power. If you are a good rider, they will do the twisties as good as most road bikes.

I sold a TDM 850 that I really liked, after doing some of Alpine dirt roads between Silverton and Lake City Colorado. It did those roads but at a slower pace than my buddies KTM 950 and he could blow me on pavement too.

You mentioned ABS. I think if you buy any of the current Adventure bikes, that ABS is not an option. It is on all them that I can think of. The latest are very sophisticated. Some can't be turned off, but good enough to ride off pavement with them.
__________________
BMW Motorrad USA customer service: "We make superior motorcycles and continue to improve them."

itsatdm screwed with this post 07-05-2014 at 04:49 PM
itsatdm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 08:01 PM   #12
mridefellow OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Oddometer: 10
Thanks from OP, Other

@Gryphon12: Thanks for your excellent and generous response.

@dragos: I read that too about the KTM and Ducati. They're out of my price range, though, and I want Japanese reliability/cost of maintenance. I'd be inclined towards the Tenere or V-Strom.


Thanks all for your responses.
mridefellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 04:44 AM   #13
XRman
Beastly Adventurer
 
XRman's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: SW Victoria
Oddometer: 2,285
weight

If you are starting out on riding dirt roads consider power and weight to be your enemies. Too much of either can be your downfall in marginal conditions when the tyres /tires are struggling to find traction.

A V-strom 650 took my fancy as my first Adventure bike, but it needed some farkles to get it just right for dirt road cruising. Still way cheaper than a KTM.
Probably boring compared to a sports bike and no match for my dirt bike, but it can do either at a slower pace.
XRman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 04:48 AM   #14
thumpazuki
wannabe
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Central Maine
Oddometer: 32
If you plan on riding roads, whether they are paved or dirt any bike on the market that isn't purely sport oriented will be more than adequate for the job. Some people like really low slung bikes which I'm guessing your current ride is. Unless you plan on taking it enduro racing you'll be alright.
__________________
What?!? Yours came with suspension?!?! No fair!!!
thumpazuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2014, 05:10 AM   #15
Jake Mountain
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: NC
Oddometer: 395
Most of this depends on the rider and the roads they will ride the most. I owned an 11 Kawasaki Concours 14 for a short time, I traded it in on a 14 vstrom 1000 because for the roads I ride.the Connie just didn't suit me, its a great bike for road riding and more open sweeping back roads. I ride mostly tighter twisties and broken bumpy pavement where an ADV bike shines. With all the fairing on a sport tourer I would not take one down any dirt road at all. There's just too much to break. I'm not saying it can't be done but I like to haul butt down gravel roads. In short an ADV bike is just so much more versatile, especially here in Appalachia.
As to your choices between the super T and the vstrom, when comparing both 14 models you can't go wrong with either. I like the lighter weight, chain drive and vtwin engine which is why I chose it.
__________________
14 Suzuki V2
01 KTM LC4 640 Enduro

Jake Mountain screwed with this post 07-06-2014 at 05:18 AM
Jake Mountain is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 08:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014