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Old 07-03-2013, 08:00 PM   #31
neanderthal
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Originally Posted by eatpasta View Post
Its certainly the overwhelming majority of the cars on the roads are gas. Smaller displacement, less weight and better engineering are definitely the key..... not BMW's answer to diesel which is 9 turbos and 19 mpg
I agree.

I think a diesel electric hybrid with a small diesel and an on demand electric motor would satisfy the needs of most people. The electric motor kicks in in high torque applications (accelerating, climbing, etc) and the diesel motor does the driving most of the rest of the time.

I think a small diesel (2.X liters) could succeed even in a large vehicle like a Chrysler 300 or Mercedes S class, if it had an electric assist. And a really small diesel like the one in the Smart (in Europe) could work in something the size of a Civic.

Diesel is already more efficient than equivalent gasoline engines, and for cruising, you don't have a lot of need for a lot of power. Hence, use the electric to accelerate and the engine to propel.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:13 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Yamarocket630 View Post
I recently saw a report (that I cant find now) showing the cost savings overall for gas vs. diesel.

With diesel fuel currently selling for more than gasoline (and as Moto medic said it's been that way for some time) It would take about 10years for the average driver to break even with the higher upfront purchase price.

In Europe where diesel is heavily subsidized and is cheaper than gasoline it more like 2-3 years.
Yeah, but it ain't all about cheap. Assuming a diesel can go much further on the same volume of fuel, it's a range extension. That doesn't matter much to most folks, but when you're planning some quality time out in the sticks, it adds value to not have to run for fuel as often. And as I understand it, diesel motors tend to live much longer lives than gas motors. I personally buy vehicles to own 'till they damn near fall apart. In this case, the diesel may be more desirable.
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Old 07-04-2013, 04:25 AM   #33
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i have a BMW 120d 6 speed manual.Its a 4 cyl 2 litre and has massive torque,more than my old school 535i.Thats what deisels are about.It has a 45 litre tank and i regularly get 750ks to a tank around town and more like 1000 ks on the open road.In real terms it uses HALF the fuel than my old 3.5.You cant compare a 2litre turbo diesel with a 2 litre petrol there is no comparison.
oh by the way it has a single turbo and i have "chipped" it
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Old 07-04-2013, 10:13 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by cbolling View Post
Diesels are coming

The US standard is cleaner than the European one right now but the new European standard is almost the same as the current US one.

What this means is that Car makers can now bring over their European diesel engines without modification.
That may have been true in the past but the ultra low sulphur diesel we got everywhere we drove in Europe (just moved here after 6 years in Germany) was far cleaner than what we typically get at the pump here...even cleaner than the newer low sulphur stuff we get here now.

They typically get cleaner base oils to start with too...

The diesel subsidies paid by European governments (most notably Germany) are pretty much gone now too, and diesel prices in Europe are now on par with super (called super+ over there) unleaded gas now. Though diesel is actually slightly cheaper to produce, pricing is almost entirely driven by supply and demand. Demand is slowly increasing in the US and suppliers are slowly ramping up to meet that demand...wish they'd get there faster though.

The $$ we've wasted throwing subsidies at electric vehicles here is stupifying...I get the intent but the tech just isn't there for widescale use yet...subsidizing inefficient tech in this manner doesn't advance the technology, it just funds production of existing tech. We'd be better off just funding battery research, etc...

EPA's been holding up diesel vehicle production over on our side of the pond and to keep this post from getting punted to CS&M will simply say that there are reports out there for those interested in searching for them talking about loss of gas/fuel tax revenue if we go into diesel to the extent Europe has...just sayin'.

Dream vehicle for me would be a hybrid electric/turbo-diesel that uses electric motors to accelerate up to speed then uses a smallish turbo diesel for cruising. Edit: Just saw Neanderthal's post...exactly!
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Old 07-04-2013, 10:30 AM   #35
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I was thinking a volt type platform series hybrid would be even better. Diesels are really efficent when tuned for single speed operation, which would be perfect to use a small 1.x liter to drive a generator... any power that isnt beinv used to drive the electric motors could go into a battery pack.

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Old 07-04-2013, 10:38 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by SteelJM1 View Post
I was thinking a volt type platform series hybrid would be even better. Diesels are really efficent when tuned for single speed operation, which would be perfect to use a small 1.x liter to drive a generator... any power that isnt beinv used to drive the electric motors could go into a battery pack.

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That's why we're seeing dozers and excavators going to diesel/electric.
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:05 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by hysterwv View Post
That's why we're seeing dozers and excavators going to diesel/electric.


http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...e-feature-test
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Old 07-05-2013, 12:39 PM   #38
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I think I saw something about Mazda potentially releasing their skyactv-d in the cx-5 as well. Hmm.. maybe an AWD CUV IS in my future... though that 6 is still seriously sharp.
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Old 07-06-2013, 04:30 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by McCormack View Post
So, anyone have the scoop on diesels?
1. Unlike European countries, the US does not subsidize diesel fuel prices so it costs more and will continue to cost more than gasoline for the foreseeable future.
2. The refineries in the US are different than those in Europe and produce a lower percentage of diesel fuel.
3. The long-haul truck market guarantees high demand.
4. Our emissions rules make it difficult and expensive for diesels to be sold here.
5. American consumers are not sophisticated and their primary performance measure is 0-60 time, even though that measure has very little significance in over-the-road performance.
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Old 07-06-2013, 05:28 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelJM1 View Post
I don't really think there is too much of a future for them here anymore. What I see is ever better efficient gasoline engines coming out which knock on the door of diesel mileage (like the Mazda 6; 2.5l, 185 torques, 185 hp, 37mpg highway), with otherwise cheaper fuel, less specialized maintainence and emissions controls, and a much more supportive infastructure. Not to mention that we're slowly but surely moving towards electric cars.
One can almost argue that the direct injection gas engines are more or less diesels that run on another fuel.

TQ is where diesels have it all over gas engines. There probably will always be a market for diesels for people that haul stuff on a regular basis.

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Old 07-06-2013, 05:34 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by scarysharkface View Post
Me.

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Dad bought one of those converted 350 engines in an Olds. He quickly found out what a hoopty POS that was and IIRC turned it back into a gas engine and sold that car quickly.

Me? I've owned a PSD and would LOVE to have a 1/2ton PU in diesel.

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Old 07-06-2013, 08:26 AM   #42
McCormack OP
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Originally Posted by neanderthal View Post
I agree.

I think a diesel electric hybrid with a small diesel and an on demand electric motor would satisfy the needs of most people. The electric motor kicks in in high torque applications (accelerating, climbing, etc) and the diesel motor does the driving most of the rest of the time.

I think a small diesel (2.X liters) could succeed even in a large vehicle like a Chrysler 300 or Mercedes S class, if it had an electric assist. And a really small diesel like the one in the Smart (in Europe) could work in something the size of a Civic.

Diesel is already more efficient than equivalent gasoline engines, and for cruising, you don't have a lot of need for a lot of power. Hence, use the electric to accelerate and the engine to propel.
I wonder this, too.

The US Navy was using diesel electric for their submarines at the start of WWII. It is by no means a new technology, though the application as you describe is one I haven't heard before.
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:25 AM   #43
Lobby
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Diesels are finally coming in significant amounts to the U.S.

But all this oil shale horizontal drilling is gonna impact our energy balances very significantly. The U.S. will be energy independent in 20 years or so. OPEC is no longer relevant; I mean right now. This means that ever escalating oil prices probably won't happen. As long as the government doesn't allow some big monopoly plays by the oil majors, we'll have relatively stable gas prices for the foreseeable future.

This means my next car will be gas, not diesel. My VW TDI gave me 230k miles over 10 years before giving up the ghost. I liked it a lot. But there's no need for diesel now. IMHO
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:26 AM   #44
Lobby
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Well, I would like a diesel compact pickup that gets 30 mpg for under $20k.
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:09 PM   #45
SteelJM1
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Originally Posted by garandman View Post
5. American consumers are not sophisticated and their primary performance measure is 0-60 time, even though that measure has very little significance in over-the-road performance.
.

That's probably the biggest hurdle. It hurts my intellect at the number of complaints i see along the lines of "0-60 in 7.8 seconds is DANGEROUS!!"

I dont know how i ever merged onto the freeway in my 92 civic cx.


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