ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > The Garage
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-03-2013, 07:50 PM   #1
Sharps-Nut OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Fly over state
Oddometer: 94
Radiator,cooling system? Drum brake question?

Hello all I am looking for help on a long over due project. I have owned this 65 mustang since 1990 at time of purchase it had 66,000 miles most of which were put on it from june of 64 till 1970 after 70 it sat more than moved and was sold at public auction in 1990. Early married years did not allow storage of my hard earned toy so it sat at mom and dads. After establishing a home a constant over heating issue plagued the car. After a minor rebuild on the motor in 1999 in an attempt to find a cracked head the over heating continued and I gave up, pissed at the money and time wasted on the rebuild it sat for the next 13 years. During that time my wife and I had a family and my oldest son starts asking questions about the car under the cover.
So two days ago we uncovered it and fired it up, the 20 year old remaned water pump let go. We replaced it
and fired it again. Thirteen years ago it would over heat in a short drive or on start up and idle a few minutes. Now with the new pump it ran 10 minutes and all seemed fine temp gauge running right in the middle, no idea of actual temp but when shut off it would heat sink drift up and when restarted would settle back to middle. So what was up with it before? I cant
test it on the road yet because the brakes are all frozen up, shoe stuck to drum. How do I get past this issue? Peckingon them lightly with a hammer and using a pry bar between the lugs has not helped. Should I put the torch to them and warm them. Should I cut off the shoe retaining pins and try to get the shoes to come off with the drum?
My local autoparts guy said I was wasting my time replacing the water pump as the over heating was caused by an upside down head gasket or cracked block or head missed during the rebuild. Not sure why the water pump helped or even if it has cured it until I can get it on the road and truly test it. The motor has one hour run time on the 13 year old rebuild so its far from proven but will remain unproven until I get the brakes up and working. Getting this thing back on the road will vindicate my shade tree mechanics skills on the little 260 v-8 ,get my wife off my back, and now with three kids oldest being 13 they have finally seen the car under the cover. It has never moved since they have been on this earth so they were sorta shocked when the cover came off and it ran and made noises. Any suggestions on this project would be appreciated. SN

Sharps-Nut screwed with this post 07-04-2013 at 07:32 AM Reason: Typo
Sharps-Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 07:25 AM   #2
MCMXCIVRS
Beastly Adventurer
 
MCMXCIVRS's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Oddometer: 1,211
Sounds like a gem in the rough you have there.

The cooling problem was quite possibly just the pump. It was not unheard of for the impellors to slip on the shaft and result in poor coolant circulation and thus overheating. Give it some cautious test driving once you get the brakes sorted and see how it does then.

As for the brakes; are the wheels free to turn at all? If so, then the shoes would not be stuck to the drums (and should not be anyway as they are not in contact with the drums except when they are actually applied). More likely is that the drums are grooved and catching on the shoes as you try to pull them off. For that, you need to back off the self adjuster to get the shoes clear of the wear ridge. If they truly are seized up and won't turn, then yes, beat/heat the hell out of them until they come apart. The entire brakes are probably toast in that case anyway so a bit of a whooping isn't going to do any more harm. Just be prepared to spring for all new brakes. If originality is not an issue, a disc brake upgrade might be an option then. Otherwise, lots of suppliers for parts for old Mustangs, so getting what you need should not be difficult.
__________________
Ed

2009 BMW F800GS, 2008 BMW K1200GT
MCMXCIVRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 07:37 AM   #3
Sharps-Nut OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Fly over state
Oddometer: 94
Brakes

I do a horrible job of describing my issues. Yes the shoes are rusted to the drum don't know why as it has been stored inside. Only one of the four will actually turn. So far pounding has not freed them up. SN
Sharps-Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 10:00 AM   #4
usgser
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Westside WA
Oddometer: 2,007
If your shoes are stuck to the drum look at the backing plate at the bottom for an oil leak. If you've got axle lube leaking past a seal and getting inside the drum. When you apply the brakes the brakes will lock up up "big time". When I've had this issues and to limp it home crawling at slow speed I'd put it in reverse and dump the clutch. It'd free the shoes till I needed to use the brakes again. Then lather, rinse, repeat till home. In my case I ran 5.30 axle gearing so crawling along in 1st gear didn't really need the brakes much till I got home. If all 4 of your brakes are locked up, it's not oil on the shoes, the guy that last did the brakes botched the job. Cheap pig-in-a-poke auction cars are fun eh?
usgser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 11:14 AM   #5
CycleDoc59
Wrench Rider
 
CycleDoc59's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: East Virginia
Oddometer: 884
Here's a "how to" with multiple solutions
to stuck drum brakes:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/brakes/bt105.htm
CycleDoc59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 12:51 PM   #6
Sharps-Nut OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Fly over state
Oddometer: 94
Thanks,

I started this morning pecking on the drum, prying, and finally cut off the pins, and removing the wheel cylinders. They did not go easy but success. Oreilly did not have any parts for a near 50 year old car so now we wait on parts. Here are a couple pics of the progress. Thanks for the MG site a lot of good info there. My drums were turned at the last brake job and are well within spec with no lip so hopefully just a polishing new wheel cylinders and master cylinder. SN







Sharps-Nut screwed with this post 07-04-2013 at 01:01 PM
Sharps-Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 03:13 PM   #7
Cataract2
Where to?
 
Cataract2's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: N. Charleston, SC
Oddometer: 1,459
Disc brake upgrade?
__________________
People who get made because they're old, haven't lived.
Cataract2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 03:38 PM   #8
qkenf4u
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: nice warm bike riding COTTONWOOD ARIZONA...
Oddometer: 201
good luck with the repairs... a good factory service manual would be very helpful with this car...

as for the kids he hawing around.. as a kid i would be all about the 65 fastback long before the blue ragtop...
qkenf4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 03:49 PM   #9
t6pilot
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: huntington beach
Oddometer: 543
If its been sitting for ages a complete brake rebuild is in order, new master cylinder, rubber hoses, wheel cylinders and shoes, not that expensive. As previous poster said front discs are a good option. They could be purchased as a option on the GT model
By the way both of those mustangs are great
Be careful lifting front that way
t6pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 11:27 PM   #10
Rampage1967
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Oddometer: 240
As for the overheating . .have your radiator checked. it may be partly plugged.
Rampage1967 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 04:44 AM   #11
concours
WFO for 41 years
 
concours's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Kensington, NH USA
Oddometer: 5,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampage1967 View Post
As for the overheating . .have your radiator checked. it may be partly plugged.
+1, also I've seen engine blocks with 4" of sludge in the cooling passages. Freeze plug removal and cleaning was needed.
__________________
Too much is just barely enough.....
concours is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 08:03 AM   #12
Sharps-Nut OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Fly over state
Oddometer: 94
Thanks

Thanks for all the words of encouragement. I ordered everything but brake lines and really I am being a cheap ass I better order them. Seems risky to replace un weather checked American made stuff for Chinese made crap. This project has reminded me you cant buy anything that's not . EIS used to make the best wheel cylinders, even had stainless steel pistons vs the pot metal ones one the rest, now out of buisness.
The comment on the fastback. Its a neat old car but its a mutt of my own making. When I moved to this state to start teaching school 18 years ago I bought it as a basket case, disassembled and partial resto. Knowing I would not know anyone and would need something to keep my evil hands busy I spent three years on and off and did most everything, my brother helped finish the body work on a marathon weekend, then made me shoot the paint. The car was restored in the most dumpy old garage behind a mobile home my wife and I bought to stop paying rent so we could save money for a real home and shop some day in the future. Originally ivy green 289 auto, now ragoon red with wimbleton lemans strips, 289 4 speed. Its been kept on the road where the convertible went to giving cooling issues and after the engine rebuild and even a new radiator I just got busy and left the old car hobby for the last thirteen years. Now with my 13 year old by my side I am enjoying playing shade tree mechanic and unlike work in the past the shade tree has gave way to a decent shop. Weird thing money still does not seem very plentiful?

When the brakes are done were going to give it a test drive and see if it holds its cool. If it does well then I am the biggest dumb ass in the world for not replacing the pump before. But keeping it off the road has only helped to preserve a really nice low miles convertible, even though it wont lay blackies like the red one.
I get to take a group of boy scouts to camp, cot sleeping and no AC for the next week so progress will slow but I will post a follow up if I can still stand after the cot thing. Thanks again for all the kind words and encouragement. SN
Sharps-Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 12:48 PM   #13
Langanobob
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Reno
Oddometer: 221
If it were mine I'd get a quality disc brake upgrade. Not sure what it costs but brakes are one of the wrong places to try and save money. Drum brakes are not very good, especially on a 60 year old relatively fast car.

Plus, doing the brake upgrade will be a very positive learning experience for the kid.

Bob
Langanobob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 08:43 PM   #14
Sharps-Nut OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Fly over state
Oddometer: 94
Update, more woes.

I returned from being homeless for a week. Nothing like 6 days and night in a tent remind you there is no place like home. The parts came in at oreilly's while we were gone. We did not go the disc upgrade route as recommended. The car is a an original old car with only 69k and I just hated to mod it. Doubt we will ever show but they are only original once and part of the charm of driving them is wondering what direction they will pull when the brakes are applied. We went thru the master cylinder and front bakes and after I backed off and let the kid do the rear. He really appreciated the brake tools, especially the one for the retainer pin springs and retaining spring pliers. I told him I had done many w/o the special tools and cussed a lot more back then. We up grade to silicone brake fluid after a good flush so hopefully wheel cylinders will last a bit longer, they were toast.
Today after finishing the rear brakes we lowered it for a test drive. It took on three quarts of trans fluid started and ran good for a while then got nasty would not idle good and wanted to die off idle, we made a slight run up the driveway and down the road a couple hundred feet and it croaked. It restarted but something was way wrong. After some time looking it over it appears to be a fuel delivery problem. It will run off gas down the carb but not off the tank. Fuel supply line is clogged, air up it and into the tank did not clear the clog but for a short idle. Comparing fuel supply to it and the fast back seems to have confirmed my thoughts of a clogged in tank screen. Managed to get the 49 year old drain plug out of the tank after much kroil and tapping with hammer. Tank is drained tomorrow we will pull sending unit and strainer assembly and confirm parts needed.
Good news is it moved under its own power for a short drive, first in 13 years. The boy got the brake job in the rear figured out pretty easy and did good work. Learned not to bend the steel brake line or getting it back into the wheel cylinder straight is a bugger. Overheating issue is still not been road tested but is looking promising. Last thing learned working on these old cars was more fun 10 and 20 years ago but I had less money. A lift is going to be a must have, two post or four post not sure but is got to happen. Me no bendy so well.
Sharps-Nut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2013, 09:23 PM   #15
Shepfly
Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: NW Ohio, E Tenn.
Oddometer: 16
Lifting Experience

I'm now 69 and installed a used Rotary brand 2 post lift about ten years ago. Best auto shop improvement I've made. Look around for a used one, I paid 750 for mine and I bought it from the guy who bought all of a closed Kmart's inventory. Even with a new pump assy after 5 yrs I have only1200 invested. A 2 post lift will give better access to work under the car, and also do wheel work since none are supporting the car. Great learning exp for your boy, he won't need a contractor to change a door knob when grown.
Shepfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014