ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Layin' down tracks
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-08-2013, 09:29 AM   #1
DabsAlot OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
DabsAlot's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia, MO
Oddometer: 256
Question Why doesn't Garmin give us the ability to Navigate a Track?

Pertaining to BaseCamp - Montana

It seems that many of us here prefer to create a Track, or predefined, specific Route and want to use our GPS unit to help us follow that specific route by the best method the GPS unit can. In the past, for me at least, using my Garmin 60csx, I would create a Route in Mapsource, then use WinGDB3 to create a Track (or multiple tracks) filtered to 500 points. Then upload both to my 60csx and use the Route if it is in agreement with my Track.

Now that I recently obtained a Montana with Voice Prompted Navigation while Routing, it would sure be nice to use that feature to the best of it's abilities. But....as many of us has found out, Routing can be a trial and error affair, and with a 50 'Shaping Point' or '50 Via Point' limit (whichever it is!) navigating a Route is tedious, or at least the learning curve is steep. (At least for figuring out how to Navigate a predefined Route and having the Montana Navigate you ALWAYS on that Route.

So Garmin......Why not just Navigate a Track? Meaning give us Voice Prompts to 'turn left/right in xx yards on xx road' when there is a mapped intersection on a Routable Mapset that the GPS unit is using? Tracks are already assigned a 'direction of travel' it seems, and if we miss a point, the GPS unit can just pick back up Navigation when we hit the next point. Now we have a 10,000 Shaping Point limit instead of 50.

Maybe I am missing something here in the difficulty in achieving this, as I am certainly not a programmer, but it seems this would be easier to accomplish than creating a route, and re-creating a route between Points as the GPS unit is in motion.

I know that as far as I am concerned, this would be a huge plus for the way I use my GPS unit.
__________________
2009 BMW F800GS
2008 KTM 250 XCW
2008 Yamaha WR250R
2005 Gas Gas 280 Pro
1975 Yamaha TY-175
DabsAlot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 10:06 AM   #2
Countdown
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Carson City/Ridgecrest
Oddometer: 4,706
Don't know Montana but all the hand helds will navagate Tracks. One reason Garmin may not have put it in Montana is that there is very little interest in navagating tracks.

I promote Dual Sport rides and no one ever navagates my Tracks, they just follow them. One main reason is navagating gives you useless instructions. When a trail makes a 90 degree turn you get a prompt yet there is not intersection. A few people who do navagate do not show navagation instructions, they just display two data items ETA & Mi to Destination just so they know how far to end.
__________________
Jerry Counts
Countdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 11:20 AM   #3
Yossarian™
Deputy Cultural Attaché
 
Yossarian™'s Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: the 'Ha
Oddometer: 8,984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Countdown View Post
Don't know Montana but all the hand helds will navagate Tracks. One reason Garmin may not have put it in Montana is that there is very little interest in navagating tracks.
Displaying a track, and providing turn-by-turn navigation of a track, are two different things.

The Montana, along with the other handhelds, does the former.

My preferred method -- not my invention by any means -- is to create a Route in Basecamp, but to then convert the Route to a Track. I load both on the Montana. When navigating the Route, I also display the Track, and can see when the two happen to deviate. This provides the Navigation but without losing the ability to see and follow the Track.

On long trips, my Montana likes to make some very strange Routing suggestions, usually when near the end of a Route. At these times, being able to see the preloaded Track is very beneficial.
__________________
Successfully surviving motorcycling since 1976.
Yossarian™ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 11:37 AM   #4
DabsAlot OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
DabsAlot's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Columbia, MO
Oddometer: 256
Very little interest in Navigating Tracks?

Is there really very little interest in voice/display prompted Navigation of Tracks?
Many of the Tracks I create are first created as Routes and then converted to Tracks. In other words, the Track is technically Routable with the map set. I just want to eliminate the re-routing woes.

Steve
__________________
2009 BMW F800GS
2008 KTM 250 XCW
2008 Yamaha WR250R
2005 Gas Gas 280 Pro
1975 Yamaha TY-175
DabsAlot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 05:31 PM   #5
Countdown
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Carson City/Ridgecrest
Oddometer: 4,706
Quote:
Originally Posted by DabsAlot View Post
Is there really very little interest in voice/display prompted Navigation of Tracks?
Many of the Tracks I create are first created as Routes and then converted to Tracks. In other words, the Track is technically Routable with the map set. I just want to eliminate the re-routing woes. Steve
I believe what you are doing is much better (safer) than having just Routes, but very few people do it. Especially for TAT or CDR etc.

In my little world of Dual Sport out west on BLM and USFS roads, we just follow Tracks. If they are Tracks from Active Logs, this is very easy. Even when I hand draw Tracks for a place I have never been, it seldom is a problem. But I am talking very little highway sections, it is mostly off highway (requireing lots of dabs) which routable maps don't have much of.
__________________
Jerry Counts

Countdown screwed with this post 07-08-2013 at 05:46 PM
Countdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 01:26 PM   #6
DRTBYK
Long Haul Adventurer
 
DRTBYK's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: North Central Washington (state)
Oddometer: 4,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by DabsAlot View Post
Pertaining to BaseCamp - Montana

It seems that many of us here prefer to create a Track, or predefined, specific Route and want to use our GPS unit to help us follow that specific route by the best method the GPS unit can. In the past, for me at least, using my Garmin 60csx, I would create a Route in Mapsource, then use WinGDB3 to create a Track (or multiple tracks) filtered to 500 points. Then upload both to my 60csx and use the Route if it is in agreement with my Track.

Now that I recently obtained a Montana with Voice Prompted Navigation while Routing, it would sure be nice to use that feature to the best of it's abilities. But....as many of us has found out, Routing can be a trial and error affair, and with a 50 'Shaping Point' or '50 Via Point' limit (whichever it is!) navigating a Route is tedious, or at least the learning curve is steep. (At least for figuring out how to Navigate a predefined Route and having the Montana Navigate you ALWAYS on that Route.

So Garmin......Why not just Navigate a Track? Meaning give us Voice Prompts to 'turn left/right in xx yards on xx road' when there is a mapped intersection on a Routable Mapset that the GPS unit is using? Tracks are already assigned a 'direction of travel' it seems, and if we miss a point, the GPS unit can just pick back up Navigation when we hit the next point. Now we have a 10,000 Shaping Point limit instead of 50.

Maybe I am missing something here in the difficulty in achieving this, as I am certainly not a programmer, but it seems this would be easier to accomplish than creating a route, and re-creating a route between Points as the GPS unit is in motion.

I know that as far as I am concerned, this would be a huge plus for the way I use my GPS unit.
Your Montana does Navigate Tracks. Just select the track, press View Map, press GO. You're now navigating a track. You will NOT get turn-by-turn voice prompts. But, you can place Waypoints along the Track and transfer the track and the waypoints to the Montana. The Waypoints will be announced as you approach and leave if you set a proximity alert.

To do what you wish to do would require a lot of very costly program memory. That is why you don't see that capability in ANY current day GPS and why there are limits to how much data is placed in active memory (where the program code runs).

Use the Track to Route method described above. It is very handy and gives you the best of both Tracks and Routes.

Oh, and if you have no-mapped-road segments in your track, you will want to use the mixed-travel routing method in BaseCamp to adjust your route so it has both Along-road and Direct Activity routing.
__________________
Cheers,

Dan
All Things GPS
Reviews at www.GlobeRiders.com
DRTBYK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 02:16 PM   #7
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Upstate SC
Oddometer: 7,599
What would be really simple is for Garmin to allow a route created in BC to just be navigated the way it's created the way the old chartplotters do. No recalculating, no tiny via point limit. If they could do that with processors from 3 generations ago, then WHY can't they do it with a much more modern and faster processor?
__________________
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.

Another day, another foot injury!
Albie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 02:27 PM   #8
DRTBYK
Long Haul Adventurer
 
DRTBYK's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: North Central Washington (state)
Oddometer: 4,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie View Post
What would be really simple is for Garmin to allow a route created in BC to just be navigated the way it's created the way the old chartplotters do. No recalculating, no tiny via point limit. If they could do that with processors from 3 generations ago, then WHY can't they do it with a much more modern and faster processor?
Wow, the Montana has been able to do that for almost a year. Where you been?
__________________
Cheers,

Dan
All Things GPS
Reviews at www.GlobeRiders.com
DRTBYK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 02:31 PM   #9
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Upstate SC
Oddometer: 7,599
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
Wow, the Montana has been able to do that for almost a year. Where you been?
No, it still can't do more then 50 via points. But you knew that.
__________________
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.

Another day, another foot injury!
Albie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 02:37 PM   #10
DRTBYK
Long Haul Adventurer
 
DRTBYK's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: North Central Washington (state)
Oddometer: 4,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie View Post
No, it still can't do more then 50 via points. But you knew that.
Sorry missed the last part since the first part through me - 'cause I know you knew that...

I must tell you though, I have never run up against the 50 viapoint limit in creating a route - maybe if you were running a delivery route in Manhattan or Sidney.
__________________
Cheers,

Dan
All Things GPS
Reviews at www.GlobeRiders.com
DRTBYK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 02:44 PM   #11
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Upstate SC
Oddometer: 7,599
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
Sorry missed the last part since the first part through me - 'cause I know you knew that...

I must tell you though, I have never run up against the 50 viapoint limit in creating a route - maybe if you were running a delivery route in Manhattan or Sidney.
Well, this thread wasn't specific to the Montana just to refresh your memory. A lot of Garmin's units will recalculate a route and there's nothing you can do to prevent it.

LOL, I've got dozens of routes built over the years that have more then 50, and they're all right here in AR. Had a buddy that sent me a route last week that has 87 in a 167 mile route. He has an ancient ass 376 that can use that route flawlessly. Even my old 478 would have no trouble since it had a 300 via point limit. My Zumo 550 will do 200 via points. But hey, my latest and greatest Montana, not so much.
__________________
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.

Another day, another foot injury!
Albie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 02:50 PM   #12
DRTBYK
Long Haul Adventurer
 
DRTBYK's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: North Central Washington (state)
Oddometer: 4,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Well, this thread wasn't specific to the Montana just to refresh your memory. A lot of Garmin's units will recalculate a route and there's nothing you can do to prevent it.

LOL, I've got dozens of routes built over the years that have more then 50, and they're all right here in AR. Had a buddy that sent me a route last week that has 87 in a 167 mile route. He has an ancient ass 376 that can use that route flawlessly. Even my old 478 would have no trouble since it had a 300 via point limit. My Zumo 550 will do 200 via points. But hey, my latest and greatest Montana, not so much.
Put that route into BaseCamp and I bet you can get at least half of those viapoints out.
__________________
Cheers,

Dan
All Things GPS
Reviews at www.GlobeRiders.com
DRTBYK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 02:57 PM   #13
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Upstate SC
Oddometer: 7,599
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
Put that route into BaseCamp and I bet you can get at least half of those viapoints out.
Oh I know I can, but that's not the point, I shouldn't have to go in and basically RECREATE a damn route that someone else has already created. You think slapping band-aids all over shit is acceptable? I sure don't

And that still doesn't answer the simple question why my old ass 478 could handle 300 via points but my newest gen Montana can only handle a pathetic 50.
__________________
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.

Another day, another foot injury!
Albie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 03:49 PM   #14
DRTBYK
Long Haul Adventurer
 
DRTBYK's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: North Central Washington (state)
Oddometer: 4,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Oh I know I can, but that's not the point, I shouldn't have to go in and basically RECREATE a damn route that someone else has already created. You think slapping band-aids all over shit is acceptable? I sure don't

And that still doesn't answer the simple question why my old ass 478 could handle 300 via points but my newest gen Montana can only handle a pathetic 50.
So, you were expecting the Montana to do everything that the GPSMAP chartplotters did? At the same cost? They probably could have done that but you might not have paid the price. Unfortunately, for you and others, the feedback Garmin got was that the majority of Montana customers didn't give a hoot about unlimited via point routes. They wanted Geocaching and Photo Waypoints and un-recalculated imported routes and...

I don't know what Garmin's Mfg Costs are with regards to a device like the Montana but if you look at the retail price of the Montana two years ago and compare it to the new Monterra (same price) it's pretty obvious that Garmin's component cost have come way down taking the Android hardware approach for a highend GPS that will most likely sell fewer numbers than the Montana. Then again, maybe they will sell like hotcakes at a sunday breakfast...we'll see.

As for feature/function, I'll put my vote in for >50 but

P.S, I voted for them on the Montana too...
__________________
Cheers,

Dan
All Things GPS
Reviews at www.GlobeRiders.com
DRTBYK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 04:35 PM   #15
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Upstate SC
Oddometer: 7,599
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
So, you were expecting the Montana to do everything that the GPSMAP chartplotters did?
Dang, not like I'm asking it to make monkeys fly out of my butt. You really think having the Montana do something a much older processor could do would really increase the cost?
__________________
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.

Another day, another foot injury!
Albie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014