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Old 07-09-2013, 05:27 PM   #16
DabsAlot OP
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I discovered the 50 point limit with the first route I made, and it was less than 100 miles in length. I probably need to alter my route building procedures. What do you guys think about making a route, convert it to a track, and then convert the track back to a route filtered to 50 points? I haven't tried that yet but it is on my to do list.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:30 PM   #17
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Dang, not like I'm asking it to make monkeys fly out of my butt. You really think having the Montana do something a much older processor could do would really increase the cost?
No. Not at all. And, if the Montana only did what the old chartplotters did there would be such an insufficient market that Garmin wouldn't have made it.

I think you missed the point....nobody but a handful of bikers give a rats ass about having a 50 via point limit. Soooo, the memory space that "could" have been used for that code was allocated to something else that the market wanted more.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:40 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by DabsAlot View Post
I discovered the 50 point limit with the first route I made, and it was less than 100 miles in length. I probably need to alter my route building procedures. What do you guys think about making a route, convert it to a track, and then convert the track back to a route filtered to 50 points? I haven't tried that yet but it is on my to do list.
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Doesn't work well at all when I tried it.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:41 PM   #19
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No. Not at all. And, if the Montana only did what the old chartplotters did there would be such an insufficient market that Garmin wouldn't have made it.

I think you missed the point....nobody but a handful of bikers give a rats ass about having a 50 via point limit. Soooo, the memory space that "could" have been used for that code was allocated to something else that the market wanted more.
If nothing but a handful of bikers gave a rats ass, then why did all those MARINE units do a lot more then 50 points?
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:06 PM   #20
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If nothing but a handful of bikers gave a rats ass, then why did all those MARINE units do a lot more then 50 points?


This is getting really funny...

Forget the old chartplotters. Those days of $6000 GPS devices for consumers are over - that's the equivalent price in today dollars.

By the way "most" of the chartplotter users don't want all of the other "stuff" that we happen to desire. Soooo, todays chartplotters don't do what the Montana does. They are optimized for Marine use. Today you can navigate a Track with waypoints/POI's included and get alerts. A 50 point Routing takes up more memory for an equivalent distance than a Track with 10,000 points does in navigation.

Don't shoot the messenger (he shoots back...from a very loooong way away. )
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:47 PM   #21
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If nothing but a handful of bikers gave a rats ass, then why did all those MARINE units do a lot more then 50 points?
Albie, I want to offer another opinion regarding the Montana. This comes from a former owner of a Zumo 550, GPS V, and GPS III.

I really like my Montana 650. It has been a SIGNIFICANT improvement over my prior Garmin GPSrs. Is it perfect? No. I have yet to see the perfect GPS, but the Montana has provided most of the functionality I want at a reasonable price. And by most of the functionality wanted, I mean routing AND tracks (either together or independently), a large waypoint library, POI capability, a very viewable screen, photo capability (which I do not use very often, but like knowing that I always have a camera with me), the ability to use AA batteries if needed, fast start-up and map drawing, multiple map set capability, the ability to use large and inexpensive µSD card storage, and more. I especially like the ability to navigate a track using my Montana. It is my now my preferred mode of navigation.

Would I like to have more than 50 via point limit? Yes, but it's not a deal breaker. If I had a route that needed more than 50 via points, I will convert the route to a track and use it instead. As DRTBYK has pointed out, motorcyclists are a small portion of Garmin's customer base and are likely the few who need a greater than 50 via point feature (and tracks are great work-around for this "shortcoming.")

The Montana has some shortcomings, but very few, if any of them, are problematic (to me). Do I recommend the Montana to everyone who asks for a GPS suggestion? No, not always. But if they need many of the features offered on the Montana, or if they need a GPS suitable for applications other than just motorcycling (say in their car, and on their boat, and for geocaching, and on their motorcycle), then the Montana is at the top of the list.

I hold out hope that Garmin will fix a few more of the glitches we have told them about, and perhaps add one or two of the enhancements we have been requesting, but if they do not, I am still a satisfied Montana owner.

I am not trying to incite an argument -- I only want to say that there are many of us who are satisfied Montana customers. If the Montana does not meet your needs, I hope you are successful finding a GPSr that meets all of your criteria.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:29 PM   #22
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I am coming to the Montana from a 60csx and so far I am quite happy with my Montana. I haven't left my 60csx at home yet...as I don't have the seat time to built up faith in the Montana yet like I have with my 60csx. I am just trying to push my GPS usage to the next level by taking advantage of voice/display prompted guidance.....like a Route provides. Being able to easily switch between mapsets is a big advantage over the 60csx for me, as well as the capacity to store those maps. Even bigger was the 10,000 point track limit versus 500. I can only see more capability coming in the future as long as Garmin continues to cater to niche markets such as ours, which I think is what they need to do to succeed in today's GPS market.

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Old 07-09-2013, 07:49 PM   #23
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This is getting really funny...

Forget the old chartplotters. Those days of $6000 GPS devices for consumers are over - that's the equivalent price in today dollars.

By the way "most" of the chartplotter users don't want all of the other "stuff" that we happen to desire. Soooo, todays chartplotters don't do what the Montana does. They are optimized for Marine use. Today you can navigate a Track with waypoints/POI's included and get alerts. A 50 point Routing takes up more memory for an equivalent distance than a Track with 10,000 points does in navigation.

Don't shoot the messenger (he shoots back...from a very loooong way away. )

LOL, I bought the 478 when they FIRST came out. It was $750 back in '06 which I'm pretty sure isn't $6000 in today's dollars.

That chartplotter used both water navigable maps AND City Navigator road maps. It also had the ability to connect an XM receiver to it. Of course back then Garmin was actually trying to offer a unit that could work in more then one environment. It could hold 50 routes with 300 via points per route. It was a bit hamstrung on tracks as it could only handle 700 point tracks except for the active log which would hold 10K. But, it was a very good routing GPS so using tracks to navigate by was senseless.

Now it had some serious downsides. First and foremost is it was a POS for standing up to any hard riding, I had to have mine replaced 3 times. So I got rid of it because it was so undependable. Second of course was the small memory and having to use Garmin's proprietary memory if you wanted to expand. Another problem was the speed. Those old processors just don't refresh maps like the new ones.

So it appears the messenger is shooting back with blanks.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:17 PM   #24
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LOL, I bought the 478 when they FIRST came out. It was $750 back in '06 which I'm pretty sure isn't $6000 in today's dollars.



So it appears the messenger is shooting back with blanks.
The exaggeration was to make a point. For the day, those old chartplotters were damned expensive. Your $750 at the historical inflation rate would be about $900 today. If I were going to lay out $900, I'd want....everything the days tech had to offer.

Oh, I shot a .50 BMG from a 20" barrel M107.....
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:27 PM   #25
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The exaggeration was to make a point. For the day, those old chartplotters were damned expensive. Your $750 at the historical inflation rate would be about $900 today. If I were going to lay out $900, I'd want....everything the days tech had to offer.

Oh, I shot a .50 BMG from a 20" barrel M107.....
So instead you laid out $600 for something that doesn't even offer tech from 7 years ago and you're happy. I guess that's OK for some folks.

It appears your .50 cal is all shell, and no bullet.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:33 PM   #26
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So instead you laid out $600 for something that doesn't even offer tech from 7 years ago and you're happy. I guess that's OK for some folks.

It appears your .50 cal is all shell, and no bullet.
Well, I paid $518 for the best available GPS device on the market.

Yeah, I'm okay with that....

661gr actually.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:51 PM   #27
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Well, I paid $518 for the best available GPS device on the market.

Yeah, I'm okay with that....

661gr actually.
I will agree it's the best on the market, but then that just shows you how pitiful the market is. Heck, even I'm OK with it, I just hope someone makes one I'm actually HAPPY with. In the meantime, we have to settle with the Microsoft mentality when it comes to GPS's.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:57 AM   #28
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I will agree it's the best on the market, but then that just shows you how pitiful the market is. Heck, even I'm OK with it, I just hope someone makes one I'm actually HAPPY with. In the meantime, we have to settle with the Microsoft mentality when it comes to GPS's.
Have you given Garmin your feedback?
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:19 AM   #29
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Have you given Garmin your feedback?
Garmin doesn't really care about such a small market segment - or if they do - can't justify the cost.

I'll keep my 376c til it dies. it cost about a grand (with City Select v6 IIRC) when I bought it about 7 years ago. With the exception of 1 internal battery replacement, it has worked flawlessly.

It's not the fastest, smallest, or the prettiest, but it will navigate a track, doesn't recalc my routes til I ask it to, and has nice buttons I can use with my gloves on. I can't load the whole U.S. map at once, but that's OK.

When it dies, I'll probably replace it with whatever the latest version of the 665 is. I need something that will display a track. Til then, I'll be a Luddite.
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:11 AM   #30
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Have you given Garmin your feedback?
Time, and time again.
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