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Old 07-10-2013, 09:55 PM   #31
quasigentrified
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it's like a mini bv! so awesome.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:30 PM   #32
JerryH
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Originally Posted by gogogordy View Post
Jerry...give it a rest willya!?.

The dealers who sell at a loss to guys like you wont BE in business to get your repeat business. Or maybe they wont WANT your repeat business. In my 35 years of sales experience customers like you were preferred in our competitor's showrooms. Go beat-up some other poor businessman....
I'm the one who is trying to not get beat up by some "poor" businessman. The dealership owners around here that rip off customers are all quite wealthy, and their huge multi brand dealerships look like the Taj Mahal. As I recently said in another post, I give my support to dealers that treat me right. They are the only ones who deserve it. Those fees are indeed bogus, and I have absolute proof, on paper. I know someone who used to be a sales manager at a local Kawasaki only dealeship. He showed me all the evidence. I bought over $20,000 worth of Kawasakis from that dealer, because that guy gave me a fair deal. And believe me, they did make a profit. There is a reason (unlike in the car world) why almost no one knows exactly how much a dealer actually has in a certain bike, and they also get a lot of factory incentives that no one knows about

There are a lot of Honda dealers around here who fit the above description, huge multi brand places that look like a palace. The owners are not only wealthy, but are expanding their network of dealerships, while paying the huge overhead on these dealerships. There is one Honda dealership that plays fair. The owner does fine, but is not wealthy. The dealership is an older, simple, Honda only place. They have been there since I was a kid (that is a long time) and have always had an excellent reputation. I have done repeat business with them. The owner (who is actually in the dealership most of the time) is not at all happy about Honda's $310 destination charge. Unlike the mythical freight and setup charges many dealers use to con customers, Honda is actually adding this charge onto what the dealer pays for a bike, so they have to pass it on to customers if they are going to make a profit. They know they are going to be hurt by this, and there is nothing they can do about it. I do not blame the dealership for this, it comes from Honda's end. Knowing this, it probably would not stop me from doing business with this dealership, but I would have a hard time buying a Honda after what they did, and the way they did it. It looks like a scam. Why not just be honest about it and add that destination charge to the MSRP? Because it doesn't look as good as it does to sneak it in underneath, partially hidden. But this is going to give Honda's competitors an edge, unless they do the same thing, and I wouldn't put it past them. This is not a good time for motorcycle sales, and they are only hurting themselves by adding on stuff like this.

And yes, I price shop everything, from food and clothes to major appliances, cars, and bikes. And I will continue to do so. It would not make sense to do otherwise, especially for someone with limited financial resources.
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:03 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
I'm the one who is trying to not get beat up by some "poor" businessman. The dealership owners around here that rip off customers are all quite wealthy, and their huge multi brand dealerships look like the Taj Mahal. As I recently said in another post, I give my support to dealers that treat me right. They are the only ones who deserve it. Those fees are indeed bogus, and I have absolute proof, on paper. I know someone who used to be a sales manager at a local Kawasaki only dealeship. He showed me all the evidence. I bought over $20,000 worth of Kawasakis from that dealer, because that guy gave me a fair deal. And believe me, they did make a profit. There is a reason (unlike in the car world) why almost no one knows exactly how much a dealer actually has in a certain bike, and they also get a lot of factory incentives that no one knows about

There are a lot of Honda dealers around here who fit the above description, huge multi brand places that look like a palace. The owners are not only wealthy, but are expanding their network of dealerships, while paying the huge overhead on these dealerships. There is one Honda dealership that plays fair. The owner does fine, but is not wealthy. The dealership is an older, simple, Honda only place. They have been there since I was a kid (that is a long time) and have always had an excellent reputation. I have done repeat business with them. The owner (who is actually in the dealership most of the time) is not at all happy about Honda's $310 destination charge. Unlike the mythical freight and setup charges many dealers use to con customers, Honda is actually adding this charge onto what the dealer pays for a bike, so they have to pass it on to customers if they are going to make a profit. They know they are going to be hurt by this, and there is nothing they can do about it. I do not blame the dealership for this, it comes from Honda's end. Knowing this, it probably would not stop me from doing business with this dealership, but I would have a hard time buying a Honda after what they did, and the way they did it. It looks like a scam. Why not just be honest about it and add that destination charge to the MSRP? Because it doesn't look as good as it does to sneak it in underneath, partially hidden. But this is going to give Honda's competitors an edge, unless they do the same thing, and I wouldn't put it past them. This is not a good time for motorcycle sales, and they are only hurting themselves by adding on stuff like this.

And yes, I price shop everything, from food and clothes to major appliances, cars, and bikes. And I will continue to do so. It would not make sense to do otherwise, especially for someone with limited financial resources.

Im Not sure what your idea of wealthy is, but most dealers I know here in So-Cal are hardworking businesspersons who somehow eeek out a middle-class living despite high overhead, low margins, taxes up the wazoo, a poorish economy, manufacturers pressure from all angles and some people like you who THINK they know how and how much income is derived from selling a $3000 dollar scooter.

Top it off with folks like you who dont patronize their service depts and It's a tough business to get wealthy in. Most do it because they love motorcycles....not because its a path to wealth and riches.

In so many posts on so many subjects you lean towards griping about prices/cost and make comments about "rip-off" fees etc so Im seeing a pattern here.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:06 PM   #34
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Here it is strictly business, The big mega dealers have no interest in what they are selling. And the owners all live in mansions. For anyone who knows the Phoenix area, two of them live in huge mansions up on Camelback mountain.

As for service departments, no way am I going to trust my bikes to a service departmant. I am a trained, experienced professional mechanic, I have an extensive tool collection, and bikes are a hobby for me. I seriously over maintain them, and for a tiny fraction of what it costs to take them to a service department. I don't buy apparel from them, because you can get the same thing from the local Cycle Gear for half as much (why, I wonder) I have tried to buy parts from them, only to get harassed by sales people trying to sell me a new bike, and being told that they do not sell parts for bikes more than 10 years old. So I started getting my parts online.

This is a capitalist country. Prices are set by competition. If the dealers don't want to compete, then everybody loses. I can't prove it, but since most local dealers have exactly the same prices and fees, I strongly suspect there is price fixing going on. They don't want to compete, and have agreed with each other not to.

Dealers ripoff practices are well known. The term "stealerdealer" is probably in the dictionary by now. Some people knowingly get ripped off to get what they want. Most of these people can afford to. I'll ride a Chinese scooter before I will over pay for a name brand one.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:19 PM   #35
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Oh trust me I tried in vane to get a deal. I almost walked as I really don't need another scooter. I was shooting for MSRP + Tax and Licence but the margins on this particular scooter are almost nothing. They had plenty of Kymco's and Genuine Scooters they would have been happy to sell at an out the door price. They had Kymco Agility 125's for $2,200 and the had 2 Kymco Like 200's for $3,200. I was tempted because the Like 200 was obviously cheaper and more scooter. However it was not a brand new model and a Piaggio with Italian heritage. Honestly I thought the Like 200 was kind of Fugly.

I can see where Jerry is coming from. I don't much care for all the extra fees either and other then taxes and licensing and whatever title fees the state requires should really be rolled into the MSRP pricing structure. Honestly I don't think anyone likes it.

The dealer knew my experience and was aware of my position. They never tried a hard sell they just said how it was. They even shared the actual dealer cost on the Piaggio Fly 150. The scooter cost them $2,789 and they have to pay another $200 in freight to just to get it witch is a totally separate transaction for the dealership. They have a margin of a $110 on this scoot. Commissions have to be paid, lights have to be on plus rent..etc. The biggest killer on businesses is the B&O tax witch is a tax on gross revenue. Businesses like motorcycle dealerships gross a lot of money because of the high priced products they sell but because of the margins they don't make that much profit so whatever profit they make gets paid back to the state.

The real evil doers in the powersports industry is the manufactures. They have slowly increased the dealer cost over the years without raising the MSRP. This is putting a major squeeze on the the middle man the dealer. Its not helping that we have become a Wal Mart society and we expect the lowest price on everything we buy. Back when motorcycle dealerships had margins of $500 or more even on the small bikes and perhaps $1000's on large bikes it was pretty easy to get a deal and the fees waived just by asking. Not so much any longer you will pay those fees in one fashion or another. Even the dealers hate it because most customers just don't understand or care about the low margins. In some ways they should not and the business model needs to change between the dealerships and the manufactures. I agree Honda is the worst at the moment and even worse they are keeping the supply at a trickle for the dealerships. It does not help they come out with a bike they can easily sell 30 of them but only get 2 every few months. The popular and great CRF250L dual sport comes to mind.

I know several dealer owners. Not really well but buy enough bikes for long enough and you get to know these people better then most. Pretty much of the 3 that I know run the dealer more so as a hobby and an asset to the community then to make a lot of money. They are enthusiast just like us and its why they got into it long ago. Its something they enjoy doing. Yeah they all seem to have money and doing well but its because they have a hand in another business interest and the money they have is not made on the sales floor.

I actually had an opportunity a few years ago to possibly purchase one of the the dealers in the area as the owner was looking to retire. He thought I would be interested because of my interest in motorcycles. I did not have the cash to do it but I have enough poll in the banking and business world plus friends in high places to get a loan. This dealership is a bit unique in that they own the building witch is a huge plus. However after reviewing the P&L statements and the books it seems they did alright but in the end I would not be much left to make any money and pay the bank loan. Since we were knee deep in a financial crisis and at the time the power sports industry was in shambles with dealers closing left and right it never went into deeper consideration. It was all cool because the owner decided not to get out anyway.

My line of work is I run an independent movie theater. Another business that consumers believe rips customers off but we really don't make much money. Its startlingly similar to a motorcycle dealership. We are forced to charge $7 for a bag of popcorn because my margins are so little on movie tickets I have no choice. Theaters take up a lot of square footage so lots of maintenance involved. Plus you have payroll and taxes to pay. That B&O tax kills us. I would love to fight and get a break from the studios but its not going to happen. They are bigger then us. Until the studios change I am forced to charge ridiculous amounts on concessions. I make maybe 50 cents off each movie ticket sold but not really because they hit us with advertising fees as well. This actually digs into concession sales making the margins worse.

In the end even with the fees the Fly 150 was a lot less then the Vespa 150 they had on the floor and still even less then the Vespa 50 they had before fees were added to those. $2,899 is not much now days (unfortunately) so a few extra fees still made it a bargain in my book and that is all that matters.

What is highway robbery is some trades out there. Not sure how they get away with it. We had a toilet break at my work. Our plumber came out to replace it. Toilet was $900 (industrial type) witch was not a big deal but the guy charged us another $1200 to put it in. It only took him 30 minutes to do. We also had a kettle go on our popcorn machine. A replacement was over $4,000 and its just a hunk of round metal. The excuse I got was they assume we make a lot of money on popcorn.

When I was buying my scoot the head mechanic was actually up on the roof patching a roof leak. Obviously they don't have enough margins as it is to keep the place fully maintained. We are forced to do a lot of band aid repairs ourselves because it has become so bloody expensive getting anything fixed. The margins just don't support it.

Most businesses now days are just trying to survive let alone make an extra buck. A few bright bulbs out there and its assumed that the ones that are bright cheat the system but any honestly run business is having a struggle right now. Things are improving but a lot of is government fluff and not everyone is seeing it. Things are tough out there!
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:57 PM   #36
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I'll ride a Chinese scooter before I will over pay for a name brand one.

Enjoy your chinese scooter Jerry.

As a professional mechanic Id think you'd understand the value of quality product, and quality support.

The fact that you selected a Stella over a "real" Vespa and have to wait and wait for parts obviously hasnt taught you anything. Honda maintains huge parts warehouses here...parts are a couple of days to the dealer. Other name brands do the same. Support like that costs....in terms of higher prices across the board, plain and simple. You cant have it both ways.

Its not often only about what you pay....but what you GET.
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:00 PM   #37
JerryH
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Originally Posted by longhaul747 View Post
Oh trust me I tried in vane to get a deal. I almost walked as I really don't need another scooter. I was shooting for MSRP + Tax and Licence but the margins on this particular scooter are almost nothing. They had plenty of Kymco's and Genuine Scooters they would have been happy to sell at an out the door price. They had Kymco Agility 125's for $2,200 and the had 2 Kymco Like 200's for $3,200. I was tempted because the Like 200 was obviously cheaper and more scooter. However it was not a brand new model and a Piaggio with Italian heritage. Honestly I thought the Like 200 was kind of Fugly.

I can see where Jerry is coming from. I don't much care for all the extra fees either and other then taxes and licensing and whatever title fees the state requires should really be rolled into the MSRP pricing structure. Honestly I don't think anyone likes it.

The dealer knew my experience and was aware of my position. They never tried a hard sell they just said how it was. They even shared the actual dealer cost on the Piaggio Fly 150. The scooter cost them $2,789 and they have to pay another $200 in freight to just to get it witch is a totally separate transaction for the dealership. They have a margin of a $110 on this scoot. Commissions have to be paid, lights have to be on plus rent..etc. The biggest killer on businesses is the B&O tax witch is a tax on gross revenue. Businesses like motorcycle dealerships gross a lot of money because of the high priced products they sell but because of the margins they don't make that much profit so whatever profit they make gets paid back to the state.

The real evil doers in the powersports industry is the manufactures. They have slowly increased the dealer cost over the years without raising the MSRP. This is putting a major squeeze on the the middle man the dealer. Its not helping that we have become a Wal Mart society and we expect the lowest price on everything we buy. Back when motorcycle dealerships had margins of $500 or more even on the small bikes and perhaps $1000's on large bikes it was pretty easy to get a deal and the fees waived just by asking. Not so much any longer you will pay those fees in one fashion or another. Even the dealers hate it because most customers just don't understand or care about the low margins. In some ways they should not and the business model needs to change between the dealerships and the manufactures. I agree Honda is the worst at the moment and even worse they are keeping the supply at a trickle for the dealerships. It does not help they come out with a bike they can easily sell 30 of them but only get 2 every few months. The popular and great CRF250L dual sport comes to mind.

I know several dealer owners. Not really well but buy enough bikes for long enough and you get to know these people better then most. Pretty much of the 3 that I know run the dealer more so as a hobby and an asset to the community then to make a lot of money. They are enthusiast just like us and its why they got into it long ago. Its something they enjoy doing. Yeah they all seem to have money and doing well but its because they have a hand in another business interest and the money they have is not made on the sales floor.

I actually had an opportunity a few years ago to possibly purchase one of the the dealers in the area as the owner was looking to retire. He thought I would be interested because of my interest in motorcycles. I did not have the cash to do it but I have enough poll in the banking and business world plus friends in high places to get a loan. This dealership is a bit unique in that they own the building witch is a huge plus. However after reviewing the P&L statements and the books it seems they did alright but in the end I would not be much left to make any money and pay the bank loan. Since we were knee deep in a financial crisis and at the time the power sports industry was in shambles with dealers closing left and right it never went into deeper consideration. It was all cool because the owner decided not to get out anyway.

My line of work is I run an independent movie theater. Another business that consumers believe rips customers off but we really don't make much money. Its startlingly similar to a motorcycle dealership. We are forced to charge $7 for a bag of popcorn because my margins are so little on movie tickets I have no choice. Theaters take up a lot of square footage so lots of maintenance involved. Plus you have payroll and taxes to pay. That B&O tax kills us. I would love to fight and get a break from the studios but its not going to happen. They are bigger then us. Until the studios change I am forced to charge ridiculous amounts on concessions. I make maybe 50 cents off each movie ticket sold but not really because they hit us with advertising fees as well. This actually digs into concession sales making the margins worse.

In the end even with the fees the Fly 150 was a lot less then the Vespa 150 they had on the floor and still even less then the Vespa 50 they had before fees were added to those. $2,899 is not much now days (unfortunately) so a few extra fees still made it a bargain in my book and that is all that matters.

What is highway robbery is some trades out there. Not sure how they get away with it. We had a toilet break at my work. Our plumber came out to replace it. Toilet was $900 (industrial type) witch was not a big deal but the guy charged us another $1200 to put it in. It only took him 30 minutes to do. We also had a kettle go on our popcorn machine. A replacement was over $4,000 and its just a hunk of round metal. The excuse I got was they assume we make a lot of money on popcorn.

When I was buying my scoot the head mechanic was actually up on the roof patching a roof leak. Obviously they don't have enough margins as it is to keep the place fully maintained. We are forced to do a lot of band aid repairs ourselves because it has become so bloody expensive getting anything fixed. The margins just don't support it.

Most businesses now days are just trying to survive let alone make an extra buck. A few bright bulbs out there and its assumed that the ones that are bright cheat the system but any honestly run business is having a struggle right now. Things are improving but a lot of is government fluff and not everyone is seeing it. Things are tough out there!
Some dealers may indeed be that way. But check into Ride Now Powersports. They are rich beyond belief. They started with one small dealership in AZ back in 1985. I bought a brand new 1985 Rebel 250 from them. After we had made the deal, and I had called my insurance company with the information, they then tried to add on a $120 "paint protection package" Apparently they had already waxed it, and were going to include a bottle of JC Whitney wax (JCW sold the same thing back then for under $20 a bottle) I declined and told them the deal was off, and was about to call my insurance company to cancel the insurance when they backed down. This was $120 of worthless crap being added onto a $1299 bike. No way was I going for that.

They now have a string of huge multi brand powersports emporiums in 5 states, and they add enough fees to nearly double the price. They are known locally as Ride Never or Ripoff Now. How is it that they have to add so many fees, when another local Honda only dealer, does not? The reason is obvious. They are getting filthy rich with their dirty money, while the Honda dealer is just making a decent living.


And I knew all about the Stella's problems before I bought it. I had been a member of Stellaspeed for several months. I did not buy it for transportation, only as a hobby, to ride short distances and tinker with. It's sitting there next to my 2 Yamaha scooters is not hurting anything. A vintage Vespa would likely have the same parts issues, plus you have to be real careful not to wind up with a Vietbodge, which is not only unsafe, but completely worthless. According to Craigslist, 2 stroke Stellas hold their value very well.

And even Chinese scooters, which you can get for less than the fees on a real name brand scooter, can usually be made to last for sometime if setup properly in the first place, and the known problem parts are replaced with good quality ones, and maintain them properly. They are so cheap I could buy a new one every year. After a couple of years, I would have some parts bikes.
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:05 PM   #38
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not all dealers are the same, jerry. cycle barn lynnwood (aka vespa/triumph of lynnwood), which longhaul and i bought from, runs on a pretty shoestring budget and the current manager, garrett, is a really stand-up guy. i am very happy to give them my business.
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:55 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
Some dealers may indeed be that way. But check into Ride Now Powersports. They are rich beyond belief. They started with one small dealership in AZ back in 1985. I bought a brand new 1985 Rebel 250 from them. After we had made the deal, and I had called my insurance company with the information, they then tried to add on a $120 "paint protection package" Apparently they had already waxed it, and were going to include a bottle of JC Whitney wax (JCW sold the same thing back then for under $20 a bottle) I declined and told them the deal was off, and was about to call my insurance company to cancel the insurance when they backed down. This was $120 of worthless crap being added onto a $1299 bike. No way was I going for that.

They now have a string of huge multi brand powersports emporiums in 5 states, and they add enough fees to nearly double the price. They are known locally as Ride Never or Ripoff Now. How is it that they have to add so many fees, when another local Honda only dealer, does not? The reason is obvious. They are getting filthy rich with their dirty money, while the Honda dealer is just making a decent living.


And I knew all about the Stella's problems before I bought it. I had been a member of Stellaspeed for several months. I did not buy it for transportation, only as a hobby, to ride short distances and tinker with. It's sitting there next to my 2 Yamaha scooters is not hurting anything. A vintage Vespa would likely have the same parts issues, plus you have to be real careful not to wind up with a Vietbodge, which is not only unsafe, but completely worthless. According to Craigslist, 2 stroke Stellas hold their value very well.

And even Chinese scooters, which you can get for less than the fees on a real name brand scooter, can usually be made to last for sometime if setup properly in the first place, and the known problem parts are replaced with good quality ones, and maintain them properly. They are so cheap I could buy a new one every year. After a couple of years, I would have some parts bikes.
Jerry, obviously "someone" thinks enough of them to do business with them and help them grow, and survive, nee thrive in this marketplace.

To be honest, sounds like this fella has embodied the American dream, and done well....grown his powersports business with the help of....many customers. God Bless him. This country needs more success stories like that.

Sounds like "someone else" is....bitter.
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:58 PM   #40
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not all dealers are the same, jerry. cycle barn lynnwood (aka vespa/triumph of lynnwood), which longhaul and i bought from, runs on a pretty shoestring budget and the current manager, garrett, is a really stand-up guy. i am very happy to give them my business.
Garrett is a very nice guy and everyone there seems top-notch. I have several friends that have bought (sometimes several) bikes from them while Garrett's been running it and all have been completely satisfied. I've been in there pretty often for this-and-that and just to stop by anytime I'm up north. Last summer Garrett gave me a clutch cable to carry spare to a scooter rally after mine broke on the way - from his own garage. He actually ran home to get it for me. And wouldn't take a dollar in recompense.

I don't get the impression Garrett's rich, either. He lives down the street from the dealership. Talk to him about Stellas and Vespas and you'll find he's clearly in the business because he loves riding... he races a modified Stella in a local club and told me once he was trying to own one of every variation of the P series: P, PX, Cosa, Stella, T5...

JerryH is probably right about most dealers, but markets vary by region, and every shop is different. I've been in some major chain dealers (there's a RideNow in my hometown) and Scooter Barn is worlds apart.
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:15 PM   #41
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Gogogordy...thanks for calling it like it is. Jerry, I no longer read your posts (not that anyone would care) simply because it seems like each and every post you write is a gripe about something. You have a gift for finding fault just about anywhere.

Sometime you might want to try commenting on a post and say something like "nice scoot, enjoy it!" and keep the complaining for another day. Or not.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:56 AM   #42
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Gogogordy...thanks for calling it like it is. Jerry, I no longer read your posts (not that anyone would care) simply because it seems like each and every post you write is a gripe about something. You have a gift for finding fault just about anywhere.

Sometime you might want to try commenting on a post and say something like "nice scoot, enjoy it!" and keep the complaining for another day. Or not.
Good luck with with that. Jerry has worn out his welcome on multiple forums, and isn't showing any signs of backing off. I'd have a laugh at some of his rants if they weren't so full of mechanical misinformation that can be potentially damaging to the unsuspecting reader.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:36 AM   #43
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I am about to head out on the Fly 150 again this morning. Yesterday the Fly 150 took a day off and I road around on my Zuma 125 and took the Ninja 500 to work. With so many bikes this will be a common occurrence as my other bikes need love too!

I will be heading into the east part of Woodinville to check on a friends house. This will involve a few roads with some nice turns and switchbacks. I also have to climb a fairly long and steep hill with a speed limit of 35 MPH but to avoid a BMW enema you really need to get it up to 45 MPH. The Zuma 125, PCX125 and my Elite 110 can easily do 35 up this hill but they all struggle a bit at 45 MPH. Oddly sometimes they can do it no problem and other times its a struggle. I guess it just depends on weather conditions and how warmed up the motor is.

After Woodinville I need to head over to Lake Forest Park and check on my folks house because they are out of town as well (hey when do I get a vacation?...LOL). I can either go really quick and get on the freeway for about 2 miles or take it slow and ride around the Sammamish slough? I don't think the Fly 150 is ready to be wrapped out on the freeway and not really its intended purpose. So I will take the other way as its more scenic and better roads as well.

After mom and dad's house I will head over to Scooter Barn and buy a 1 liter bottle of oil and a filter/o-ring plus whatever final drive oil they carry and the appropriate crush washers. I know its not necessary but it makes me feel better getting out that initial oil. Sometimes that first drain on the final drive can be really nasty. I have drained final drives at 60 miles and it was solid gray. Did it again at 600 miles and it was perfectly good. Its that innitial mesh of the gears in the first 20 miles or so that really messes up the oil. The sooner that is out the better. It really depends on the bike but you won't know until you dump it. Its easy to do. BTW, the Fly 150 has the more standard way of doing the final drive oil No dip stick like most other Piaggio scooters but 2 bolts. You dump from the bottom bolt and the refill from the top bolt until oil starts to drip out. A much better and fool proof way to do it.

If I have time when I get back I plan to take a few more photos of the underseat storage space and the glove box fuel area. Speaking of fuel I need to stop at Costco and get some. I mentioned getting an early start on my fuel economy readings by topping off the tank but I never got around to it. Plus its a little better burning through the dealer fill and letting the motor loosen up a bit anyway. Right now I am about a half tank according to the gauge.

Oh Scooter Barn called me the other day just checking how I am digging the new scooter? They seem genuinely interested in what I had to say and wanted to make sure I was 100% satisfied. First time I ever got a call like that from a bike dealer. They are really easy going and really trying hard to increase business. I think they will do well if scooters ever get popular. Everyone loves mine and really admires the practicality and economy but very few I know have actually bothered buying one. In fact only one the security guard at my work.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:13 AM   #44
brianwheelies
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Originally Posted by gogogordy View Post
Jerry, obviously "someone" thinks enough of them to do business with them and help them grow, and survive, nee thrive in this marketplace.

To be honest, sounds like this fella has embodied the American dream, and done well....grown his powersports business with the help of....many customers. God Bless him. This country needs more success stories like that.

Sounds like "someone else" is....bitter.
This thread is way off topic. Jerry is 110% correct here. I went to get a Zuma 125 yesterday and this is what they handed me....


These people are scumbags. It's no wonder you never see product moving.

Hopefully enough people speak with their wallets to shut down places like this. They try to monopolize towns as well.

Back to the regularly scheduled Fly 150 3V!
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:27 AM   #45
Birdmove
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Geebus!! I bought a new one year old Kymco People 150 for about $2200 out the door from Kisers Motorcycles in Kona, Hawaii. It's a 2009 and I bought it in 2010. Two year warranty and a dam good scooter.
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