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Old 08-25-2013, 05:43 PM   #61
Lostsaffa OP
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Originally Posted by gammel View Post
Love the avatar:cool:
Thanks gammel, it was a google find so hopefully no one else here created it!!
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:13 PM   #62
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Scott Summers...

I think that is the Scott Summers pose where he held his XR600.

Gooooood thread!

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Thanks gammel, it was a google find so hopefully no one else here created it!!
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:24 AM   #63
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Awesome Thread and Awesome Posts!

My memory ain't perfect and it's been many years but I do remember this story well for some reason.

As I recall Bob telling it the guy who came up with the Batwing was a friend of Jonah's in Washington State who was an Aeronautical or Aerospace Engineer. I don't think it was Jonah who came up with it but he was working on it and a buddy or some guy he knew who showed him.

I often wonder what the 2nd Gen XR650R would have been like if Honda would have had the balls to keep that effort going.

Regarding making new Batwings, or any of the 1X International stuff Bob and Diane did, I think the problem is now there is a whole different group of people riding the XR650R and few of them show any interest in the 1X version of the bike that Bob and Bruce evolved. Many of the 1X parts you mention hung on the display wall there at the shop for years and no one sought them out. If you could get a list of committed buyers together then I will help Diane do another run of the Batwings - I have three of them. But the list would have to be significant, not ten guys I think unless the price was pretty high.

I also think there were some parts Ogilvie had others like Bob working on and testing. I know Ogilvie had Ty Davis working on a longer emulsion tube. There was a one-off boot between the carb and the intake. There was a radiator fan that sold on here about four years ago still in the plastic. My experience is that many / most of those parts are now on bikes whose riders don't even know what they are.

If you want to hear a great story ask Bob about the first time he and Johnny showed up at the GP (I think) in high desert to run Johnny on the new XR650R against the full Team Green KX500 factory effort when Destry was at his peak. Was in 2000 I think. That is when Kawi knew the party was over. Ogilvie showed up with his Honda entourage and was very pleased with Bob...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostsaffa View Post
There are many myths and opinions on the Bat Wing that was developed by Precision Concepts and Bob Bell, and I have found many approaches to re-creating the design. My first step was to contact PC and find out if they had any of the Bat Wings lying about and this was their reply:

"Jonah Street came up with that. I wish that we would have saved one as a template, but we didn't. Diane"

So, I began my search for the best approach. Put simply the Bat Wing was a piece of aluminium fixed inside the air box to smooth out the airflow into the throat of the carb. Bob and his team quickly noticed from the first prototype race bike that the XR650R air box is one of the worst designs for a race air intake. The aim of an air box is to filter and provide enough air to feed the fuel ratio at any RPM, and in a racing bikes case that needs to be at its optimum at high RPM, when the bike needs the most air at once.

Something had to be done and Jonah Street along with some aerospace input came up with one or both of the following designs (since posting this I was made aware by Mung that the second design is an original so I will find out more before confirming one or the other) to smooth the airflow:




This first design looks easier than it may seem to make. You have to bend and twist the aluminium in several directions and it is important that you seal it around the edges to prevent air getting past. The throat bend is quite short too. This design is unlike any other attempts I have seen. The second is simpler to make as it just bolts top and bottom and sits in the middle of the air box.

Here is an attempt made by another owner:


I had already begun to make my own Bat Wing when I found the original photos of the Baja bike's Bat Wing so I contacted fellow inmate Burpsa about his attempt and he kindly gave me a pdf template of his design plus some info on where he felt it could improve. One area being the throat which I then looked at making longer so that it goes right up towards the carb.

Here is my attempt in pictures:
First I made a template out of 0.6mm aluminium as it is easier to cut and shape

Note the much longer throat, the challenge was going to be how to keep it from flapping


I then made a few tweaks here and there to get it fitting right and then cut the 1mm aluminium into shape, and this is what it looks like




I also polished the aluminium surface to make it super smooth. The theory with this design is that it channels most of the air to the left of the Bat Wing and doesn't reduce the volume of the air box for lower RPM use. Coupled with the HRC spec air box cutout it should be effective at getting most of the air to the intake as smoothly and directly as possible.

As the bike is still being built I have not been able to test it, but with my aerospace experience in the air force and a bit of practical theory, I can see it doing a pretty good job. One of the myths has been a 'massive power gain' but this is optimistic in my opinion. For most normal trail riders this Bat Wing may not be too noticeable. I suspect that with the correct exhaust system (T4 Megaphone type) it aids overall air flow and therefore helps the engine cycle by making air more easily available at a certain RPM.

The throat feels solid so hopefully it won't flap once air starts passing over it. I will be making the 'original' design too and then try both side-by-side and decide on the best for my bike.

Any questions/ideas please fire away
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:10 PM   #64
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Ok, I'll put my name the the Bat Wing list!!!
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Old 09-21-2013, 04:16 PM   #65
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Awesome thread and I too love the bike your building
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:54 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by JParanee View Post
Awesome thread and I too love the bike your building
Thanks JParanee, much appreciated!! Now that my wedding is out of the way, the build should get going again soon :)
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:00 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
My memory ain't perfect and it's been many years but I do remember this story well for some reason.

As I recall Bob telling it the guy who came up with the Batwing was a friend of Jonah's in Washington State who was an Aeronautical or Aerospace Engineer. I don't think it was Jonah who came up with it but he was working on it and a buddy or some guy he knew who showed him.

I often wonder what the 2nd Gen XR650R would have been like if Honda would have had the balls to keep that effort going.

Regarding making new Batwings, or any of the 1X International stuff Bob and Diane did, I think the problem is now there is a whole different group of people riding the XR650R and few of them show any interest in the 1X version of the bike that Bob and Bruce evolved. Many of the 1X parts you mention hung on the display wall there at the shop for years and no one sought them out. If you could get a list of committed buyers together then I will help Diane do another run of the Batwings - I have three of them. But the list would have to be significant, not ten guys I think unless the price was pretty high.

I also think there were some parts Ogilvie had others like Bob working on and testing. I know Ogilvie had Ty Davis working on a longer emulsion tube. There was a one-off boot between the carb and the intake. There was a radiator fan that sold on here about four years ago still in the plastic. My experience is that many / most of those parts are now on bikes whose riders don't even know what they are.

If you want to hear a great story ask Bob about the first time he and Johnny showed up at the GP (I think) in high desert to run Johnny on the new XR650R against the full Team Green KX500 factory effort when Destry was at his peak. Was in 2000 I think. That is when Kawi knew the party was over. Ogilvie showed up with his Honda entourage and was very pleased with Bob...
Thanks for this insight Bump, I feel that getting a list long enough for a Batwing blitz would be very challenging as like many other XR accessories (eg. Electric start) people say they want them but ultimately never buy them when a chance arises.

We can play it by ear however. What I really need is say 5 people wanting the BRP triple clamps in JC colours, then I may have a chance of getting them made again :)




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Old 10-30-2013, 04:12 PM   #68
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Quick update

Just a quick one for anyone following and wondering what's happened lately, I have the Mikey Childress forks in at the same shop the hybrid shock was built and will report back on those once they arrive.

Other than that there are some smaller parts on their way from the states which include the airbox cover mod kit from XR's Only (I chose to do it myself on a new stock cover rather than buy their ready made UFO version).

Small amounts of cash are trickling into the bike fund so things will be moving soon!!
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:37 PM   #69
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Love this build!

Also, just talked to Diane today at PC and she said that she has been getting so many calls about the batwing that she is going to try and track one down and do another run... now maybe she was just blowing smoke up my ass to get me off the phone, but I'm a dreamer.
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:46 AM   #70
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Still watching, and trust me when I say.....I know builds take time, especially when rare parts are involved....
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:53 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KustomizingKid View Post
Love this build!

Also, just talked to Diane today at PC and she said that she has been getting so many calls about the batwing that she is going to try and track one down and do another run... now maybe she was just blowing smoke up my ass to get me off the phone, but I'm a dreamer.
I'd be in for one as long as I can still fit the battery for my Microsquirt in the airbox.
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:30 AM   #72
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Interesting project. Always liked that bike!
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:07 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KustomizingKid View Post
Love this build!

Also, just talked to Diane today at PC and she said that she has been getting so many calls about the batwing that she is going to try and track one down and do another run... now maybe she was just blowing smoke up my ass to get me off the phone, but I'm a dreamer.
Now that would be awesome! Last time I spoke to her, which was almost a year ago, she said she wished she had kept one but perhaps even since then other people have been asking. Fingers crossed!
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:11 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by bobbed06 View Post
Still watching, and trust me when I say.....I know builds take time, especially when rare parts are involved....
Tell me about it! It's reaching the stage now where only the rare parts are left to source so it's slooooooowing down...

I keep reminding myself that the journey is where the fun is, but honestly I can't wait to ride the thing :)

Thanks for watching!
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:08 AM   #75
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Ok, i'll put my name the the bat wing list!!!
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