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Old 07-15-2013, 12:00 PM   #1
BEEF706 OP
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Question How new is new enough?

So, I now know that I not only love messing around on trials bikes, I actually like competing. I do not for one minute think that I lost a lot of points because I was on a '94, I lost points because I have no skills . BUT I have big plans for myself (delusional, huh) including moving up a couple of classes in the next year (I started in novice, am thinking about amateur next time). In the spring I am gonna have a bit o' funding come my way, and I think I'm gonna upgrade my ride. My question is not what bike to buy, (we will have that debate as time gets closer, and after I educate myself by shamelessly asking for rides on different bikes) but simply this how new is new enough? It looks as though 2011 was a big change year for Gasgas and Beta both, is that where to start to get a bike I would not really ever need to trade up?
Part of this is because i got to oogle a bunch of new, shiny machines this weekend (that Ossa was sexy), but I can also see that there would be some real feelable advantages even at my level (so much narrower and lighter). I also wonder if all of the newer bikes would have stiffer springs available for their suspension, (I don't want to spring it like a motocrosser, but I weigh 225, so I bottom my 94 just climbing on it). I think my budget will be 5-6 k, not unlimited, but should have a lot of choices.
Thanks for your patience with the noob.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:45 PM   #2
motojunky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEEF706 View Post
So, I now know that I not only love messing around on trials bikes, I actually like competing. I do not for one minute think that I lost a lot of points because I was on a '94, I lost points because I have no skills . BUT I have big plans for myself (delusional, huh) including moving up a couple of classes in the next year (I started in novice, am thinking about amateur next time). In the spring I am gonna have a bit o' funding come my way, and I think I'm gonna upgrade my ride. My question is not what bike to buy, (we will have that debate as time gets closer, and after I educate myself by shamelessly asking for rides on different bikes) but simply this how new is new enough? It looks as though 2011 was a big change year for Gasgas and Beta both, is that where to start to get a bike I would not really ever need to trade up?
Part of this is because i got to oogle a bunch of new, shiny machines this weekend (that Ossa was sexy), but I can also see that there would be some real feelable advantages even at my level (so much narrower and lighter). I also wonder if all of the newer bikes would have stiffer springs available for their suspension, (I don't want to spring it like a motocrosser, but I weigh 225, so I bottom my 94 just climbing on it). I think my budget will be 5-6 k, not unlimited, but should have a lot of choices.
Thanks for your patience with the noob.
I'm not going to make a recommendation, rather share an experience from this weekend that is probably fairly useless.

I ride a 2002 Scorpa SY250R. I've had it for ~3 years and I really like it. It's been a great beginner bike and I don't feel like it is limiting me at my current level of competition. Clubs are all different in their class structure, but I would classify myself as a novice/intermediate rider - competent, but far from great.

At the trials school I attended this weekend, my bike sprung a leak in the lower radiator hose. The organizer loaned me a 2012 Sherco (290?) to ride for the rest of the day. I spent about 3 hours on the bike doing various exercises and fiddling in the woods/creek on my own. It was enough time to be able to make a good comparison between the bikes as opposed to the usual 5-10 minute test ride.

The most noticeable difference is power delivery. The Sherco makes a lot more power and delivers it very quickly. My Scorpa is somewhat docile and slow revving. It also has the slow throttle (been meaning to change that). The extra power took a few minutes to get used to but is very welcome. It makes the bike so much more "active" and aggressive.

I didn't check the numbers, but I suspect that it weighs close to 15 pounds less than my Scorpa. My bathroom scale says my Scorpa is ~165, and I'd bet the Sherco is ~150. At the weight range that these bikes are in, that's a significant percentage.

Less easy to define was how "sure footed" the Sherco was. My Scorpa, with the mild power delivery, makes for a great bike in low-traction situations. I was riding in some slick roots and rocks yesterday and expected the Sherco to be a handful with all of the power. It wasn't. It was very planted and seemed even easier to find grip (both ends) than my bike.

Of course, the brakes worked better, the suspension is better, etc.

At my current skill level, I don't know that changing bikes would make much of a difference in terms of points. What I do think, is that I'd progress further and more quickly if I were to change to a new bike. My Scorpa hasn't been limiting so far but I believe it may be time to start thinking about an upgrade.

Hope that nonsense helps you some...
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:48 PM   #3
laser17
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For $5-6K you can buy an almost new bike. (new ECO bike in fact)

For example - see here.
http://www.jackscycles.com/used.html

If you dont have to have the absolute latest and greatest, waiting until the new ones start to ship can usually land you a great used bike as folks get to jonesin for a new one and price there old bike to move fast.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:57 PM   #4
BEEF706 OP
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Thanks for the replies guys.
Motojunky, I think I feel exactly the same as you do, a new bike wouldn't make me good, but it might help me be better .
I now need to get in some real riding time on the one that I have, (we are out of town for a bit, so no riding for 12 days)
I think Ill be shooting for a 2011-2012 something then maybe.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:54 PM   #5
jonnyc21
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Thumb An ECO would have been great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by laser17 View Post
For $5-6K you can buy an almost new bike. (new ECO bike in fact)

For example - see here.
http://www.jackscycles.com/used.html

If you dont have to have the absolute latest and greatest, waiting until the new ones start to ship can usually land you a great used bike as folks get to jonesin for a new one and price there old bike to move fast.
If I had seen the price for the ECO models I might have one insted of the 07 4RT I picked up. Love my 4RT now that I have it though!
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:08 PM   #6
2whlrcr
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If you are competitive and like to compete, I think you're kidding yourself about buying an almost new or new bike and never having to buy another. Most people I know who are really into it, get a new or newer bike at least every three or four years.

Now that being said, as a newbie I think any bike from the last ten years in good mechanical condition will get you going just fine. Spend a year or so riding that. Within that time you'll get a chance to ride plenty of other bikes and be able to make a more informed decision based on personal experience, what's gonna work best for your for a next bike.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:37 PM   #7
Gordy
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It hurts more to launch a $9K+ bike, so you tend to stay on better.
Just sayin.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:23 PM   #8
BEEF706 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy View Post
It hurts more to launch a $9K+ bike, so you tend to stay on better.
Just sayin.
Voice of experience?
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEEF706 View Post
Voice of experience?
He's launched a few.








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Old 07-15-2013, 06:25 PM   #10
lineaway
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You need a new bike like you need a hole in your head. Your `94 is overkill for the lower classes all the way through sportsman. If you just `HAVE TO` have a new bike, anything newer than an `04 will be fine no matter what brand. (I understand a new bike brings it`s own confidence and feeling of belonging) You always buy the cleanest bike possible and never a Pro or Champs almost `new` ride.

Glad you have become addicted, but it takes years of learning to ride this stuff. Hope you have nothing but `FUN` doing it!!!!
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:28 PM   #11
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PS any of the econo`s suck!, buy a real used bike instead.
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Old 07-15-2013, 06:57 PM   #12
broncobowsher
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OK, my story...

Started trials on a '96 Fantic a few years back. Actually started beginner class. I had off-road experience playing in rocks in a 4WD, and highway experience on a motorcycle. But zero experience on 2-wheels off-road. (I eventually sold the '69 Bronco because I liked trials enough to get out of the 4WD, but that is another story) The Fantic was a fairly solid bike. Older version of the modern bikes. I am not a great rider. But I am getting better and better. Had a few issues with the fantic, but could work them out. Fork seals, clutch, normal stuff for a decade+ old bike.

A little over a year ago I picked up a '12 Sherco. Demonstrator version that had some time on it already. Been debugged. I have seen very good riders ride my bike. I can at this point state that anything that goes wrong is not the fault of the bike. It is purely the rider's (in)ability to get through the section.

There was a learning curve. First event I could forget about getting any decent score, it was just about learning the new machine. Didn't help that I bought it a few days before the event. The bad part is I can't tell you how fast the learning curve catches up, I took out a knee inside of 2 months of getting the bike. That recovery period has been a year. I am finally learning the kickstand is on the other side.

Yes the new bike was expensive. But mentally (and this sport is highly mental) the new bike has been great. It is a few pounds lighter, but wow a few pounds can make a HUGE difference. I have no doubt that the new bike will last to be as old as the Fantic was when I got rid of it. At that time I expect to see bikes to evolve to a new level and have to go through the whole learning curve again, hopefully without a new knee injury.
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Old 07-15-2013, 07:12 PM   #13
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The very steepest part of the depreciation curve is the 1st couple years. Year #1 hit is $2k+ on todays latest and greatest. Slows down alot by year #3. So you wont be in for a huge hit should you change your mind. Clean 2010 2t's are under $4K and can be found in the $3500 range.
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:39 PM   #14
BEEF706 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lineaway View Post
You need a new bike like you need a hole in your head. I almost got another one this weekend
Glad you have become addicted, but it takes years of learning to ride this stuff. Hope you have nothing but `FUN` doing it!!!!
I agree I don't NEED a new bike I need to learn off camber turns and balance standing still, but I think I will want one. And yes I am addicted already and yes I am having fun.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:46 PM   #15
DrKayak
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I wonder if my 2013 Evo is too new for my skill level... I put a ton of hours on a $1,000 Techno over the last 2 years. Got hooked on riding hard single track on a trials bike and really wanted the Beta long range tank. 2 years of watching CL and not a single Rev3 available with a legal CA OHV sticker. Had the cash so I paid $6k for a used like new 2013.

It's a huge step up, even from a 06 Rev3 I had but could not get a CA registration for. Like Bronco said... my first comp I did worse than I do on the Techno.

Cost asides, at this point I wish I could have found a nice Rev3. I plan to hang tough and get better and not sell the Evo like the noob I got it from. But I can see why it was too much for him.
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