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Old 08-19-2013, 10:08 PM   #91
modeselector
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Originally Posted by byron555 View Post
Where can one find out more info on the specs of this bike (team website, etc)?
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:17 PM   #92
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The bad side with using the old VTR-Engine is that the thing weighs too much, consumes too much fuel, doesn't meet emissions and doesn't give enough power.

The good side is......*eeerrgghh*........no development cost ?!?

What Honda should do is come up with a new engine that is somewhere around 850-1000 cc. That in a smaller/detuned version could be used in a coming TransAlp.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:38 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by wingnut11 View Post
I keep telling him that he would not only have a car with style but one that actually works well. It makes me wonder if we will ever get past the idea bigger is always better.

It's an old consumer thing where you have more car for less extra. Like the whole Super size thing with food.

Who needs 10,000 Cal a day. Wave a 10% more for double the chips in most peoples face and they go for it.

The "applicable technology" OR "application specific" phrases are just a bit geeky for most people.
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:16 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P3ia View Post
The bad side with using the old VTR-Engine is that the thing weighs too much, consumes too much fuel, doesn't meet emissions and doesn't give enough power.

The good side is......*eeerrgghh*........no development cost ?!?

What Honda should do is come up with a new engine that is somewhere around 850-1000 cc. That in a smaller/detuned version could be used in a coming TransAlp.
'Consumes too much fuel'? Under which rock have you been hibernating the past 10 years?

The Varadero plant is a detuned VTR engine, NOT a VTR engine. The first Varadero's (carburettor versions) build from 1998 till 2003, where (very) thirsty. But since the introduction of the MK2 in 2003, with fuel injection, its fuel consumption became rather good - keeping in mind that it is a big, tall and heavy bike (ABS version puts 283 kg on the scale!). 5-6 litres per 100 km in average are normal figures.

After the latest update (2007) it became even better. On my 2011 Varadero (licence 2012) I can achieve fuel consumption as low as 4 litres per 100 km - and I don't ride slow. On motorways (cruising speed 130 km/h in Western Europe, up to 160 (100 miles/h) in Germany) 5 to 6 litres is average.

Sorry for using the metric scale above... I lost track in the different gallons, imperial gallons, US gallons, etc...

The current Varadero plant already meets up to EU emission regulations and the big plus... the engine is really bulletproof. Mileages of + 300.000 km are no exceptions. Only the first series (1998) had some issues with the cam chain tensioner.

It won't be that difficult to modify the engine to stand up to EURO3. If I was Honda, I would even modify the engine up to EURO6. That is not as difficult as it seems... The current engine has monopoint fuel injection, by replacing this for multipoint injection it will be easier to step up to emission regulations...

And the engine has enough 'buffer' to squeeze out some more Bhp too! But frankly... all that fuzz about high power output... Where do you need it? When I take my old Transalp 600, with only 48 Bhp, out for a ride on curvy and windy roads, a rider on a 150+ bhp bike has no chance, exept on a straight line. And offroad big power outputs are totally useless. Remember... the old Africa Twin only had 60 bhp! With 95 bhp and almost 100 Nm Torque I think the current engine has more than enough to offer, if it is used in a new bike which total weight lies beneeth 200kg...
It seems logical if Honda would act that way. It is a lot cheaper than re-designing and developing a brand new power plant. I am also convinced (looking at the competition from especially the European manufactures at BMW, Triumph and KTM) that Honda has run out of time....

I do share your thoughts about a new Transalp though...
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Two Plugs screwed with this post 08-19-2013 at 11:22 PM Reason: additional info
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:44 PM   #95
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Yeh, a new transalp, like this:



http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/pic..._twin_1200.htm
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Old 08-20-2013, 01:18 AM   #96
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Sooooo... if they really are serious about this than i would say that the New AT will have:
- 2 or 4 cyl. in V formation
- aluminium shield
- it has to have 2 headlights
- driveshaft
- 1000cc
- 20L tank
- HRC painting scheme/colours
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:06 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Two Plugs View Post
...in a new bike which total weight lies beneeth 200kg...


um sorry Continue...
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:10 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by raoulserban View Post
Sooooo... if they really are serious about this than i would say that the New AT will have:
- 2 or 4 cyl. in V formation
- aluminium shield
- it has to have 2 headlights
- driveshaft
- 1000cc
- 20L tank
- HRC painting scheme/colours
So... You're describing the old varadero with shaft drive?
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:30 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by A-Wind View Post
I guess I'm not following you...

On this thread we are NOT talking about the another universal POS bike. There is plenty of other threads for that.

This thread is about a SUCCESSOR to a legendary bike that once indeed EXISTED (and built for many years). A bike that is truly worthy of it's name and designation !!!


A hint for those, who seem to be worried more about accounting than riding: it was a huge success and it made money.

Amen
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:30 AM   #100
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Used to own a black Africa twin model 1998. Great bike... It was stolen with 3000 Km 's on the clock
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:33 AM   #101
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The more i think about it - the more i reckon the 1000 XL motor rumour is crap. Infact, that whole MCN piece smacks of Monday deadline "journalism".

Pan Engines weigh more than the sun. Why put that in a new modular range?

The local Honda rep has already confirmed the existence of the NC750X for 2014 - probably one of the reasons my local dealer can't get any more 700's - and the NC's have gained a rep as reliable and bloody frugal, if not the most exciting bike ever. No biggie for those that just want to ride bikes and not spend a fortune.

So look at it from a sales standpoint. Will Honda piss away R&D money re-skinning a bike that was aimed at the 1150 GS and put another slow seller in the showroom along side the XTourer, or will they just do a bit of work to the upcoming NC750X and reap the sales success of a variant of a good seller?

If i was a betting man i would put one whole pound on the latter..
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:38 AM   #102
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It sounds like we are all resigned to the fact that Honda are going to produce yet another turd.

I got so excited by the pics of the home grown version that I completely forgot we are talking about a company that hasn't produced a class leading bike since the 92 fireblade.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:54 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milzispete View Post
It sounds like we are all resigned to the fact that Honda are going to produce yet another turd.

I got so excited by the pics of the home grown version that I completely forgot we are talking about a company that hasn't produced a class leading bike since the 92 fireblade.

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Old 08-20-2013, 03:43 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by milzispete View Post
It sounds like we are all resigned to the fact that Honda are going to produce yet another turd.

I got so excited by the pics of the home grown version that I completely forgot we are talking about a company that hasn't produced a class leading bike since the 92 fireblade.
Why would it be a turd? It may not be a "class leading bike" but do you want something that only a Dakar rider can cope with or something that is great for many at a price for many?

The Tiger800XC is really just a road bike with big wire wheels, tubes and a beak, Not much imagination in that thing. Platform engineering. Plenty of people seem to happy about that.

I think they are pushing it up hill a bit from the start. They like the rest of the Japanese decided that once the big Dakar bikes were canned the model development was too. They all lost momentum.

Weren't these things made for the general public as an offshoot of a racing program?
If that is the case this time it will be a 55HP 450cc single with big tanks.

If not it will something sourced from some existing motor, maybe warmed up. It's not hard to develop a decent chassis and suspension and a tank or two.

On the other hand, and as far as I can see they may take a punt and poor some money into trying to reclaim the glory for a few people and make a softer version to try and recoup some costs. If that is the case expect it to be a bit pricey, like other low volume niche bikes. Why would it be any different?

The past 3 years tells me that if you are HONDA and you charge big prices for engineering you are scoffed.
If you make a bike that isn't too expensive it's a turd because it's not "top level engineering".

The funny thing is the acclaimed top end engineering in the GS, KTM, Ducati etc being eSuspenders and ECU Modes is mostly done by external vendors like Ohlins, Sachs or Bosch or WP not the name plate on the bike.

The Yen is not at 300 to the Dollar anymore, Those days are gone.
Globalization has made it all even Stevens these days.
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"It's better to ride a boring bike than push an interesting one" ... Canuman

"I just may as well admit that my other bikes are toast. I don't ride them. Plain and simple. I didn't want this. It wasn't the plan." - snakebitten

GrahamD screwed with this post 08-20-2013 at 03:56 AM
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:07 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Paulvt1 View Post
The more i think about it - the more i reckon the 1000 XL motor rumour is crap. Infact, that whole MCN piece smacks of Monday deadline "journalism".
Exactly. I don't know why the big Honda twin had such a weight penalty over the Strom I didn;t look at it that closely, It may have just been as tough as nails, and I couldn't see the 30% price difference where I live but that could have just been where I live. It did look better built though, so I could see some additional price being fair.
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"I just may as well admit that my other bikes are toast. I don't ride them. Plain and simple. I didn't want this. It wasn't the plan." - snakebitten

GrahamD screwed with this post 08-20-2013 at 05:41 AM
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