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Old 07-18-2013, 09:19 PM   #91
*Gmoney*
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Originally Posted by HappyForNow View Post
Live happy man.

Sanity
gives me a smile
Thank You
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:37 PM   #92
PalePhase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedShark View Post
Pale Phase - I've encountered similar myself:

"Your logic and rational critical thinking are Not Welcome Here."

okay....

I forgot to add that with the advent of the high-performance sport bikes that everybody -- even non-riders -- know Hawgs are slooooow. But by conflating non-competitive performance with harmlessness, the poorly trained novice translates that subtle contempt into a false sense of safety, the guard goes down, and then it is only a matter of time before something bad happens.

Ironically, it was a Harley rider who advised me NOT to buy any cruiser but especially not a Harley as my first bike. His point was that "slow" does not equate to forgiving. Relative to a standard, he cited generally less effective braking, dicier emergency handling, and much less margin of lean angle, all working against a novice in a fast-developing crisis situation. My Magna has vindicated him on several occasions, and now in hindsight I wish I had started on a 250CC dual-purpose bike.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:46 PM   #93
Vertical C
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It is amazing what people can crash on. I just bought a 110cc scooter with 1500kms with all of 8hp and 102kg which had been crashed by the rider on both sides. Light crashes at 10kmh so cosmetic only, the last one a car pulled out on her in a car park and she dropped it.

She wouldn't get back on it after the second.... she won't buy another I bet.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:11 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical C View Post
It is amazing what people can crash on. I just bought a 110cc scooter with 1500kms with all of 8hp and 102kg which had been crashed by the rider on both sides. Light crashes at 10kmh so cosmetic only, the last one a car pulled out on her in a car park and she dropped it.

She wouldn't get back on it after the second.... she won't buy another I bet.
It ain't for everybody.
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Old 07-19-2013, 03:23 AM   #95
Mat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyForNow View Post
That's the point dude. Just because another country makes a law doesn't mean that we have to follow.

I did't mean to sound like a political sign waiving douchbag, but... well you know how that road was paved.

Peace
As soon as you have some sort of civilization, there will be people who don't like seeing dead bikers lying around on the streets, and live ones flying into their cars because they never learned how to ride. Not to mention that as soon as you have some sort of advanced civilization, everyone contributes a little helping out accident victims. No hero left behind or something.

So people will try to prevent accidents. Since most don't ride, it is easiest to just ban or heavily restrict motorbikes. Say, a general speed limit of 50 mph for motorbikes? Or no motorbikes at all on public roads? Sounds "totally fine" for some people, believe it or not.


The better and more likely alternative (from the biker's point of view for sure) is to be more reasonable. A first step is to make sure that there is a base level of competence before someone steps on a bike and goes out potentially endangering themselves and the public.

A tiered system is a good way for that and even allows to let some steam off with less deadly bikes for that first overconfidence phase.
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I think there might be a more scenic route somewhere...
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:39 AM   #96
p0diabl0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Gmoney* View Post
I though we where making fun of a dead motorcycle rider that made the wrong decision?
I was just comparing decisions
that children made
when they did not go to church that day.

I need pills
because my comparison to bad decisions,
upset a thread about bad decisions?

I have learned that my thoughts only upset
the people that are on pills,
and cannot cope with life.

Who are these people that judge,
and decide what is the proper way to die?
And if the story of their believe, of what they think is truth,
they recommend pills?

I am more worried now, about the amount of motorcycle riders
riding while under the influence of pills,
then first time riders.

I learned a long time ago people only recommend what works for them.
I decline your experience with pills and how you think it will work for me at this time.
I'm confused by your obscene use of the enter key - are you trying to write poetry or song? I'd like to introduce you to my friend.
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:02 AM   #97
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Well, good to see this thread has become just another opportunity for respectful and thoughtful discussion.
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:12 AM   #98
Rick G
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I haven't read more than the first page here, so I don't know if this topic has been touched, so here goes...

At what point does the dealership take responsibility for handing someone with ZERO motorcycle experience the keys to a brand new bike and then showing him the door without making sure he at least has the skills to get home?

I am not faulting them for selling him the bike, but come on now. Make sure he knows how to ride before sending him on his way! Offer to store the bike for him until he gets his license. Offer to pay for a MSF class or at least to strongly suggest he take one. Take him out to your parking lot on an old beater to at least teach him the basics. There are many things they could do, and probably earn very good press for doing so. Instead they take the money and run to the bank.

Very sad state of affairs that will ultimately lead to more regulations.

I am very much in favor of some sort of tiered licensing here in the states like they do in most other civilized countries.

My condolences to the deceased's family and friends.

This should not have happened here in America.

Rick G
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:26 AM   #99
Montague
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He wanted a bike badly and finally achieved his dream.

While it is sad that he died so soon after and on that dream bike, such is life (and death). Life is a lottery where our numbers will eventually come up; the house always wins.

This death should not be a focus for finger pointing or criticism, so many of us (riders) die or are injured every year in accidents, but we still gladly accept the risks. There are too many nannies who would love to see the activity banned.

Perhaps there is something to be said for leaving this world suddenly while doing something you love as opposed to living many years and a slow decline to the inevitable.

My deepest condolences to his family and friends.
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:42 AM   #100
daveinva
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montague View Post
He wanted a bike badly and finally achieved his dream.

While it is sad that he died so soon after and on that dream bike, such is life (and death). Life is a lottery where our numbers will eventually come up; the house always wins.

This death should not be a focus for finger pointing or criticism, so many of us (riders) die or are injured every year in accidents, but we still gladly accept the risks. There are too many nannies who would love to see the activity banned.
I don't gladly accept any risks. I mitigate and manage risk, and advocate every rider, of any age and skill level, do the same, so they can safely continue enjoying what they love doing.
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Old 07-19-2013, 10:08 AM   #101
Montague
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinva View Post
I don't gladly accept any risks. I mitigate and manage risk, and advocate every rider, of any age and skill level, do the same, so they can safely continue enjoying what they love doing.
Every time you get on your bike, you have more risk of death and injury than driving a car.

The reality of the sport, the safest rider is at risk from everyone else on the road.

Arm chair criticism of a man's tragic death do nothing but give ammunition to individuals and groups who want to see motorcycles banned or made unattainable by average person, not to mention disrespectful of grieving family.
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Honda ST1300 with Hannigan Super Sport sidecar (Hondagan), Ural Gear Up, Rokon Ranger and now an Argo, WTF is wrong with me?

A Brit named Billy once said something silly; he so wrongly concluded that Ural deluded.
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:30 AM   #102
rocker59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick G View Post
I haven't read more than the first page here, so I don't know if this topic has been touched, so here goes...

At what point does the dealership take responsibility for handing someone with ZERO motorcycle experience the keys to a brand new bike and then showing him the door without making sure he at least has the skills to get home?

I am not faulting them for selling him the bike, but come on now. Make sure he knows how to ride before sending him on his way! Offer to store the bike for him until he gets his license. Offer to pay for a MSF class or at least to strongly suggest he take one. Take him out to your parking lot on an old beater to at least teach him the basics. There are many things they could do, and probably earn very good press for doing so. Instead they take the money and run to the bank.

Very sad state of affairs that will ultimately lead to more regulations.

I am very much in favor of some sort of tiered licensing here in the states like they do in most other civilized countries.

My condolences to the deceased's family and friends.

This should not have happened here in America.

Rick G
If they truck it home for him. What of his first solo ride? He still doesn't know what he's doing, right?

Harley pushes thier Rider's Edge course to everyone who walks in the door. If this guy didn't take the class, I can almost guarantee you that it was offered to him.

The buyer is an adult, and way over 18, so at what point is it his sole responsibility to know his own limits? There is no way staff at a dealership can really know what those are or aren't.
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:38 AM   #103
rocker59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat View Post
As soon as you have some sort of civilization, there will be people who don't like seeing dead bikers lying around on the streets, and live ones flying into their cars because they never learned how to ride. Not to mention that as soon as you have some sort of advanced civilization, everyone contributes a little helping out accident victims. No hero left behind or something.

So people will try to prevent accidents. Since most don't ride, it is easiest to just ban or heavily restrict motorbikes. Say, a general speed limit of 50 mph for motorbikes? Or no motorbikes at all on public roads? Sounds "totally fine" for some people, believe it or not.


The better and more likely alternative (from the biker's point of view for sure) is to be more reasonable. A first step is to make sure that there is a base level of competence before someone steps on a bike and goes out potentially endangering themselves and the public.

A tiered system is a good way for that and even allows to let some steam off with less deadly bikes for that first overconfidence phase.
Government Officials stationed at every motorcycle dealership to enforce order and regulaton.

Yes. That's the answer...

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Moto Guzzi Sport 1100
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"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:32 PM   #104
RedShark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
Government Officials stationed at every motorcycle dealership to enforce order and regulaton.

Yes. That's the answer...

"Sorry, son. You can't buy that GSXR1000 until you can lap Thunderhill on the SV650S reference bike in under 1:58..."
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Old 07-19-2013, 01:53 PM   #105
Rick G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
If they truck it home for him. What of his first solo ride? He still doesn't know what he's doing, right?

Harley pushes thier Rider's Edge course to everyone who walks in the door. If this guy didn't take the class, I can almost guarantee you that it was offered to him.

The buyer is an adult, and way over 18, so at what point is it his sole responsibility to know his own limits? There is no way staff at a dealership can really know what those are or aren't.
So lets change the scenario from motorcycles to cars which both require a license to use on the street. Can you imagine a car dealership handing over the keys to a car to someone without a license and absolutey no experience regardless of the cash in his hand?

What if that total noob driver crashes his just bought car killing a pedestrian or other driver 3 miles from buying a car at a dealership?

I don't see much difference. You don't need a license to buy a care but need one to drive a car off a dealer's lot. There seems to be a double standard here. I wonder if this poor fellow even had a lerners permit?

If we don't police ourselves, the govt. will do it for us and we may not like those results.

Rick G
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