ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-23-2013, 02:33 PM   #16
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 48,506
Quote:
Originally Posted by quasigentrified View Post
good luck getting that past the manufacturers, who probably like the influx of new sales from lazy, wealthy boomers who want the badass bike and image without paying the dues. also, aren't the margins on big bikes MUCH higher?
As I said earlier, not likely, but that doesn't mean it should not be done! Americans are both lazy and feel entitled on issues like this. Just look at helmet laws!

Jim
JimVonBaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 03:29 PM   #17
SkiFastBadly
A beer? Yes, please
 
SkiFastBadly's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Woodinville, WA
Oddometer: 1,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyvh1959 View Post
The MSF has no pretentions (from within) of training Rossis, we're jsut trying to help riders survive the first season of riding with the expectation the RIDER will take on the rest of learning/training on themselves to improve and survive. Don't bash the MSF too harsh until you consider all this, or become part of the training community and do something about it. It looks a lot different from within.

Rant over from the inside.
Coming from a mountain biking background, learning that the front brake supplies ~70% of stopping power was invaluable to me. And I learned that at an MSF class.

Learning about traction management was invaluable. And I learned that at an MSF class.

Learning that one of the highest causes of fatalities was having cages turn left in front of riders was invaluable. And I learned that at an MSF class.

Learning that if my rear tire started to skid, I should NOT let off the brake was invaluable to me. And I learned that in an MSF class.

Each of those learnings, at some point, saved my ass.

The instructor said, when we passed "You haven't learned how to ride. Now you have enough knowledge to begin."

Well satisfied.
__________________
The crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw.

2008 Buell Ulysses
2008 Triumph Scrambler
2004 HD Heritage Softail
SkiFastBadly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 03:33 PM   #18
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Upstate SC
Oddometer: 8,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by quasigentrified View Post
good luck getting that past the manufacturers, who probably like the influx of new sales from lazy, wealthy boomers who want the badass bike and image without paying the dues. also, aren't the margins on big bikes MUCH higher?
Return sales are worth much more then one time sales. That's retail 101. Margins increase with volume.
__________________
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.

Another day, another foot injury!
Albie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 07:47 PM   #19
FloorPoor
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Spudville, Idaho
Oddometer: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post

That said, I am in favor of some sort of tiered licensing system designed to prove competancy for increasing HP bikes.

Jim
Forget all this nanny state endorsements and licensing, let the dipshits kill themselves, this place is getting too crowded anyway.

I'm in favor of people spelling competency competently before saying we need more government regulations to "keep us safe"
__________________
"You can have anything you want, but not everything you want."

"There's nothing like that fresh tire feeling "
FloorPoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 08:02 PM   #20
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 48,506
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
Forget all this nanny state endorsements and licensing, let the dipshits kill themselves, this place is getting too crowded anyway.

I'm in favor of people spelling competency competently before saying we need more government regulations to "keep us safe"
Yeah, because everyone knows that spelling equals intelligence and common sense!

The smartest people with the least common sense I know are great spellers!

Jim
JimVonBaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 09:18 PM   #21
FloorPoor
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Spudville, Idaho
Oddometer: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Yeah, because everyone knows that spelling equals intelligence and common sense!

The smartest people with the least common sense I know are great spellers!

Jim
Just ribbin' you a bit, I'm a terrible speller, but spell check is my friend
Anyway, MORE government regulation is usually NOT the answer to anything. I say let natural selection do it's thing. If so many people want to make such poor risk/benefit evaluations, ie pirate costume and a leather bandana vs. a helmet and some gear, let them. Motorcycle accidents are rarely fatal to anyone other then the one on the bike.
__________________
"You can have anything you want, but not everything you want."

"There's nothing like that fresh tire feeling "
FloorPoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 09:51 PM   #22
bimmerx2
Studly Adventurer
 
bimmerx2's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: DFW area of Texas
Oddometer: 983
Should not be anything surprising in that article

Virtually any way you slice it the story makes sense, baby boomers should be dying more than others.
  • There are more baby boomers riding than before, and maybe more than any other group. That age group is just a big chunk of the riders out there.
  • Most in this age group join into what they see as the 'biker" lifestyle - no gear, bar hopping, "fair weather" weekend only rides, etc. As pointed out above, those attributes don't add up to a safe rider.
  • Many are only in it for the social aspect so they don't care to become 'expert' riders. If they don't try to become skilled at riding then they probably are not going to be very skilled. Again, much more likely than average to wind up a hood ornament.
  • Many are new riders but think they know how to ride because they think they know how to drive. Riding a bike with the same mentality as driving a 2 ton SUV increases your chance of becoming a statistic.
  • There is an enormous volume of wrong information out there and a lot of it feeds the 'feel good' aspect of riding which sucks the casual riders into doing things that get them killed.
  • We just ain't as good as we used to be. Experience counts for something but having quick reflexes and a strong mind and body can sometimes get you out of a sticky situation.
__________________
Bimmerx2
'06 BMW 1200 GS (sold )
'12 BMW K1600GTL
'08 Honda CBR 1000RR (get outta da way!)
'05 Honda CBR 600RR (trackday toy)
bimmerx2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 06:50 AM   #23
dazeedmonds
Gnarly Adventurer
 
dazeedmonds's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Oddometer: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorPoor View Post
Anyway, MORE government regulation is usually NOT the answer to anything. I say let natural selection do it's thing. If so many people want to make such poor risk/benefit evaluations, ie pirate costume and a leather bandana vs. a helmet and some gear, let them. Motorcycle accidents are rarely fatal to anyone other then the one on the bike.
Normally I'm with the less regulation is better.....but in this case I have to disagree. 1st) Natural selection only works if those that have NOT been "selected" shuffle off this mortal coil prior to procreation...Baby boomer have (for the most part) already procreated, and thus are no longer relevant in a discussion of natural selection. 2nd) Licensing to my mind is not a way to protect people from themselves, it is a way to protect the rest of the community from people that should not be behind the wheel. You can't drive a 16 ton Semi without significant training, practice, and an exam, because of the potential to cause harm not only to yourself but to others. Typically motorcyclists are the ones injured in a bike collision, but it is not a big stretch to imagine that an untrained, or unqualified motorcyclist could cause an accident without being a part of the actual collision.

The American "bigger is better, anything else is for little girls" mentality gets people hurt. I am a new rider, and hope one day with much practice and experience to become an old rider. For right now I ride a 250 (despite being repeatedly told that a 900, or an 1100 would be a "minimum" to ride safely) because I recognize that I do not have the skills to handle a big heavy motorcycle in an emergency, I will wait for a while before I move to something larger. Until then, I ride the back roads and enjoy the scenery, and find more excuses to go to the gas station just to get riding time.
dazeedmonds is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 10:38 AM   #24
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 48,506
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazeedmonds View Post
Normally I'm with the less regulation is better.....but in this case I have to disagree. 1st) Natural selection only works if those that have NOT been "selected" shuffle off this mortal coil prior to procreation...Baby boomer have (for the most part) already procreated, and thus are no longer relevant in a discussion of natural selection. 2nd) Licensing to my mind is not a way to protect people from themselves, it is a way to protect the rest of the community from people that should not be behind the wheel. You can't drive a 16 ton Semi without significant training, practice, and an exam, because of the potential to cause harm not only to yourself but to others. Typically motorcyclists are the ones injured in a bike collision, but it is not a big stretch to imagine that an untrained, or unqualified motorcyclist could cause an accident without being a part of the actual collision.

The American "bigger is better, anything else is for little girls" mentality gets people hurt. I am a new rider, and hope one day with much practice and experience to become an old rider. For right now I ride a 250 (despite being repeatedly told that a 900, or an 1100 would be a "minimum" to ride safely) because I recognize that I do not have the skills to handle a big heavy motorcycle in an emergency, I will wait for a while before I move to something larger. Until then, I ride the back roads and enjoy the scenery, and find more excuses to go to the gas station just to get riding time.
N0ob! You should post more!

Jim
JimVonBaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 04:39 PM   #25
ehatcher
Hello? Is this thing on?
 
ehatcher's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Eastern PA
Oddometer: 2,117
There is a whole mess of riders who actually believe loud pipes saves lives, that dressing up like a pirate is more important that dressing safely, that will tell you with a straight face that helmets "don't really help in a crash," that don't use the front brake, that are riding a bike far too powerful and heavy for their skills.......I am gonna guess that ya just can't save people from themselves.




E
__________________
"Mostly the animals understand their roles, but man, by comparison, seems troubled by a message that he cannot quite remember or has gotten wrong. Bereft of instinct, he must search continually for meanings." Loren Eiseley

ehatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 05:06 PM   #26
dazeedmonds
Gnarly Adventurer
 
dazeedmonds's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2013
Oddometer: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehatcher View Post
There is a whole mess of riders who actually believe loud pipes saves lives, that dressing up like a pirate is more important that dressing safely, that will tell you with a straight face that helmets "don't really help in a crash," that don't use the front brake, that are riding a bike far too powerful and heavy for their skills.......I am gonna guess that ya just can't save people from themselves.
I work with two of them....the aforementioned individuals who were certain I would be in far more danger on a 250 than an 1100 I've never seen anything but pictures of their bikes, but I ride my "under-powered girls bike" to work almost every day. I don't know how they actually ride (seeing as I've never actually known them to ride) but I would be more than a little scared of riding with them, just based on their conversations about riding. (Which blows, cuz I'd love to have someone to ride with and they both work the same idiotic schedule I work.) You're right in that you can't save people from themselves, which leaves us to do the best we can to try to keep the odds in our favor.
dazeedmonds is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 05:16 PM   #27
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: OR
Oddometer: 19,497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie View Post
I'

Want to really see a reduction in fatalities, have a tiered licensing system.


A tiered system would not change a thing. The idiots will still find a way to be idiots.
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 05:29 PM   #28
randyo
Beastly Adventurer
 
randyo's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Northern NewEngland
Oddometer: 1,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Andy,

If there was a federal requirement for tiered licensing
except for the fact that such federal requirements would be contrary to the 10th amendment

there is no reason though, why individual states can't mandate tiered licensing
__________________
RandyO
IBA # 9560
07 VeeStrom
99 SV650
82 XV920R
A man with a gun is a citizen
A man without a gun is a subject
randyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 06:29 PM   #29
the_sandman_454
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Location: Coleman, Michigan
Oddometer: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyo View Post
except for the fact that such federal requirements would be contrary to the 10th amendment

there is no reason though, why individual states can't mandate tiered licensing
Tiered licensing could lead to increased safety if the people covered by said law choose to obey it. In this current entitlement society where everybody wants the world and wants it right now and it isn't fair to make someone work to achieve a goal, the tiered licensing system would only lead to fewer people actually bothering to get a license.
__________________
Tim
09 KLR650
the_sandman_454 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 08:32 PM   #30
randyo
Beastly Adventurer
 
randyo's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Northern NewEngland
Oddometer: 1,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_sandman_454 View Post
Tiered licensing could lead
maybe so, you should encourage YOUR state to try such a thing, it's just not something that will happen on the federal level in the US
__________________
RandyO
IBA # 9560
07 VeeStrom
99 SV650
82 XV920R
A man with a gun is a citizen
A man without a gun is a subject
randyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014