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Old 07-25-2013, 12:37 PM   #46
R_Rick
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An issue with a tiered license system is the system are generally put together as a result of the "won't somebody think of the children" mentality. A committee of bureaucrats get together and develop a system that, on paper, looks good and shows that they are listening to the people to make the roads a safer place; however, in practice they missed the point.

For example, in the province of New Brunswick (Canada), they introduced a tiered system around 2000. IIRC, it came into play after a several newer riders on larger bikes began dying in higher numbers than prior stats showed. A poorly thought out tier system was put in place that essentially said if you take your test on a bike under 650cc you are restricted to bikes under that size unless you take the test again on something 650+.

There was an assumption that new riders were taking the safety course on 250's and would use these bikes for their "road" test (which was in a parking lot and required no road riding). Some took the test on the smaller bikes, however, many borrowed a 650+ from a friend so they could get the full endorsement (even if they owned a smaller displacement) or they went out and bought a small and 'slow' CBR600.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:21 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Rick View Post
An issue with a tiered license system is the system are generally put together as a result of the "won't somebody think of the children" mentality. A committee of bureaucrats get together and develop a system that, on paper, looks good and shows that they are listening to the people to make the roads a safer place; however, in practice they missed the point.

For example, in the province of New Brunswick (Canada), they introduced a tiered system around 2000. IIRC, it came into play after a several newer riders on larger bikes began dying in higher numbers than prior stats showed. A poorly thought out tier system was put in place that essentially said if you take your test on a bike under 650cc you are restricted to bikes under that size unless you take the test again on something 650+.

There was an assumption that new riders were taking the safety course on 250's and would use these bikes for their "road" test (which was in a parking lot and required no road riding). Some took the test on the smaller bikes, however, many borrowed a 650+ from a friend so they could get the full endorsement (even if they owned a smaller displacement) or they went out and bought a small and 'slow' CBR600.

Of course that can be said of EVERY law, since they usually are made to apply to the least common denominator.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:23 PM   #48
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Nice try, but that will not hold. The Fed has plenty of examples of overriding the 10th ammendment for public safety.

Jim
yes, they have made the threat of withholding highway funds of states that have not passed seat belt laws among other penalties for not going along with feds

yet here in NH we haven't caved and still get highway funds

I'm sorry that your state has not stood up to the feds

seatbelts aren't the only laws the feds have not been able to enforce

II. Any official, agent, or employee of the government of the United States, or employee of a corporation providing services to the government of the United States that enforces or attempts to enforce a act, order, law, statute, rule or regulation of the government of the United States upon a personal firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured commercially or privately in New Hampshire and that remains within the State of New Hampshire shall be guilty of a class B felony.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:45 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by randyo View Post
yes, they have made the threat of withholding highway funds of states that have not passed seat belt laws among other penalties for not going along with feds

yet here in NH we haven't caved and still get highway funds

I'm sorry that your state has not stood up to the feds

seatbelts aren't the only laws the feds have not been able to enforce

II. Any official, agent, or employee of the government of the United States, or employee of a corporation providing services to the government of the United States that enforces or attempts to enforce a act, order, law, statute, rule or regulation of the government of the United States upon a personal firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured commercially or privately in New Hampshire and that remains within the State of New Hampshire shall be guilty of a class B felony.
So you are saying the fed can't make laws that all 56 states have to abide by?

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Old 07-25-2013, 02:55 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
So you are saying the fed can't make laws that all 56 states have to abide by?

Jim
only laws that they are constitutionally allowed too

drivers licensing is not one of them, if it was, we woulda had federal licensing requirement long time ago
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:13 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by randyo View Post
only laws that they are constitutionally allowed too

drivers licensing is not one of them, if it was, we woulda had federal licensing requirement long time ago
Maybe you should do some reading:

http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullifi...._Constitution)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_preemption

Jim
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:18 AM   #52
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So you are saying the fed can't make laws that all 56 states have to abide by?

Jim

Would you care to identify those 56 states?
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:54 AM   #53
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Would you care to identify those 56 states?
Well Texas probably counts for at least three if you ask Texans ......

Sent from.......where am I again?
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Old 07-26-2013, 10:13 AM   #54
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Well Texas probably counts for at least three if you ask Texans ......


That could mean Alaska counts for 7 or 8.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:57 PM   #55
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Would you care to identify those 56 states?
Sorry, Uncle Obama said there was 57!

Jim

PS Typo.
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Old 07-26-2013, 10:58 PM   #56
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grew up riding dirt.. my adjustment is street riding.. motorcycle class instructor said similar thing .. "I've only prepared you for riding in a parking lot.."

pretty much true.. no substitution for experience.. on the street, on your bike...


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Old 07-29-2013, 05:22 AM   #57
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Tiered licensing works in Europe.

A1 - 125cc and down, with limits on HP/weight, too, 18YO
A2 - 38hp and down, with limits on HP/weight, 18YO
A3 - whatever the hell you want, man, 25YO or two years after your A1/A2

You have to train and take the exam on the bike for the level you are testing for. 42% of the applicants fail their first practical.

I trained on a 250 for my A2 (then A), and when it came time for my exam, my instructor offered up the possiblity of doing another 10 hours on the "big" bike and going for my full A3 (A(u) then). I spent the additional couple hundred euros to go for the full license and got it on the first try.

Aside - I need to rebuild my F650GS - it suffered repeated attacks by the BMW mechanics and now does not like to start. I love that bike. It's temporary replacement during the overhaul is a brand spanking new Honda CBR250R. Holy living shit, is it a hoot to ride! Why more people don't love small bikes is beyond me. I feel like I have crossed some sort of motorcycling Rubicon with the realization that little bikes are stupidly fun.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:33 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
Tiered licensing works in Europe.
Yes but that's Europe...and Europeans tend to have different views on things than Americans. They also believe people should enjoy their lives, that women should actually NOT go back to work the day after having a baby that people under the age of 21 should be allowed to drink alcohol and that not everyone should be able to buy guns that shoot small missiles instead of bullets. These things confuse Americans. We like things simple.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:53 AM   #59
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The trend towards boomers/retirees starting to ride is so... second childhoodish. Riding safely is something that requires years of ingrained sixth-senses and i snot well learned by someone who drives a new 700 pound behemoth on weekends. Riding is not a carefree, fun lifestyle, it's practically a Calling.

Back to the OP, wasn't it Minnesota that repealed it's helmet law last year? Or was it Michigan or Wisconsin ?

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Old 07-29-2013, 06:05 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
The trend towards boomers/retirees starting to ride is so... second childhoodish. Riding safely is something that requires years of ingrained sixth-senses and i snot well learned by someone who drives a new 700 pound behemoth on weekends. Riding is not a carefree, fun lifestyle, it's practically a Calling.

Back to the OP, wasn't it Minnesota that repealed it's helmet law last year? Or was it Michigan or Wisconsin ?

--Bill
It was Michigan but neither Wisconsin or Minnesota have a helmet law unless you're under 18 (or something like that).

Seeing how the majority of the Boomer set rides and dresses for the ride around here I'm shocked there aren't more dying in MN and western WI. Seems like the normal headwear is the DOT/SNELL approved headband or dew-rag.
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