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Old 07-24-2013, 06:27 PM   #16
pilesofmiles
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Originally Posted by Tonk View Post
I feel for the woman that hit him. I would think an endorsement is required to operate on public roads not only to protect the rider but also to show that the rider understands his/her role in properly using the roadways. One persons actions affect another persons actions. I feel horrible for the rider but the poor driver of the SUV has to live with this experience.
Well said. Nobody wins in this situation. Sad....
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:43 PM   #17
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:07 PM   #18
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I pulled into the ducati shop on my sv650.
The dealer was showing a kid,this is the clutch,and this is the throttle
On a duc xyz superbike!.
I pulled right back out of there,before the show started.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:24 AM   #19
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I agree but if I couldn't produce a valid driver's license when buying a car you can bet they wouldn't let me take the car home from behind the wheel.
Generally speaking, once the car is your property, they have no longer have legal control over what you do with it.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:46 AM   #20
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Ultimately it is the buyer's responsibility to understand the risks and gain the proper training when purchasing a motorcycle. I agree that the dealerships are NOT legally responsible for making sure their customers are trained before riding off. However, it would make an incredibly smart and moral business practice. As the OP stated, the dealership did offer to deliver and the customer refused. I wonder if the fatal accident will change their own dealership policy.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:34 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by FirstPath View Post
Ultimately it is the buyer's responsibility to understand the risks and gain the proper training when purchasing a motorcycle. I agree that the dealerships are NOT legally responsible for making sure their customers are trained before riding off. However, it would make an incredibly smart and moral business practice. As the OP stated, the dealership did offer to deliver and the customer refused. I wonder if the fatal accident will change their own dealership policy.
That is a good question.

I have to wonder about the impact, if any, it had on the salesperson that sold him the bike and how it will affect his future practices.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:07 AM   #22
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However, it would make an incredibly smart and moral business practice... I wonder if the fatal accident will change their own dealership policy.
Every fatal accident happened on a vehicle purchased from some dealership. The only effective way to make sure no car (or motorcycle) sold from a dealership isn't involved in a fatality is to stop selling any.

There is always "something" that can be done, be it in the name of safety or think of the children. Invariably, it involves reducing personal freedoms. Your freedom to go out and buy a so-called crazy fast bike, your freedom to ride such a bike wearing whatever safety gear you feel is right for you, your freedom to even buy a bike at all (many want them completely outlawed, in the name of safety).

Are you really comfortable selling off freedom for safety?
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:21 AM   #23
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I don't think it's a matter of preventing accidents by stopping the sale but rather preventing the accidents by "slowing the sale". Taking steps (not legal ones) to help your customers get themselves and their new bike home safely isn't impeding on a personal freedom IMHO. Let them buy whatever bike they want but guide them toward a bike that fits their stature, needs and skill level.

At the close of the sale should every buyer have to have delivery? No way. But I'd bet the sales person's gut may be telling them who does. Nothing wrong with going with your gut feeling. It's gotten me out trouble before.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:41 AM   #24
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My gut tells me I need those fries, that's why I can see it more than I like.

Who knows, they may well have done that at this dealership, with this particular buyer. But at the end, it's the buyers choice. Even if the saleman has a good idea what's going to happen. You can't protect everyone from themselves.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:47 AM   #25
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My gut tells me I need those fries, that's why I can see it more than I like.

Who knows, they may well have done that at this dealership, with this particular buyer. But at the end, it's the buyers choice. Even if the saleman has a good idea what's going to happen. You can't protect everyone from themselves.
True dat. Mmmm .... Fries.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:23 AM   #26
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Sad to hear this..

Several years back I remember sitting at a red light and this kid next to me on his new bike reving the motor, as soon as the light turned green he wheelied across the intersection and was going through the gears when a car with 3 young kids in it made a left infront of him. Needless to say it was a mess and he died there on the street.

I had just recently got my endorsement and was in no way going to get on a bike without some training. I went through the T3RG training here in Denver and learned as much as they can teach you on safety and basic skills. You still need experience and just have to be a very cautious and aware rider.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:02 PM   #27
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Training would certainly help ... I can't remember how many stories similar to the one posted I have read in various US bikeforums, I can't recall ever hearing a story like that here.
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Old 07-26-2013, 10:38 AM   #28
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Training is the difference. I'd imagine the steps one has to take to get licensed to ride a motorcycle in Germany are far stricter than what we have in the United States, but I could be wrong.

I've been to the dealership that this accident occurred at, and the parking lot exits directly onto the service road at the top of a hill. You have to go from a dead stop to almost 60 mph very quickly, lest you get run over by the cars coming up the hill from your left.

The sight lines are short and you cannot see the entrance and exit to the dealership until you are practically right on top of it as you crest the hill. When leaving the dealership, you have to move quickly for the same reason.

Traffic in this town is horrible, the drivers are horrible, I can't even begin to count the number of highly stupid things I witness people doing every single day.

Put an inexperienced rider in the mix, and the results will be disasterous everytime.

So I am thinking a mentoring program of some sort, not just some buddy that rode once...ten years ago....on a dirtbike...would be beneficial.

But how would it manifest itself, what things should be addressed?

Hmmm.
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Old 07-26-2013, 03:38 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Heyload View Post
I've been to the dealership that this accident occurred at, and the parking lot exits directly onto the service road at the top of a hill. You have to go from a dead stop to almost 60 mph very quickly, lest you get run over by the cars coming up the hill from your left.

The sight lines are short and you cannot see the entrance and exit to the dealership until you are practically right on top of it as you crest the hill. When leaving the dealership, you have to move quickly for the same reason.

Traffic in this town is horrible, the drivers are horrible, I can't even begin to count the number of highly stupid things I witness people doing every single day.
This is exactly what I was thinking. I used to live on the other side of I-10 from where this dealership is and that hill is sketchy. I wonder if he just happened to lean a little on new (i.e. slick) tires and gassed it?

And I concur, having lived in a bunch of different places in this world, San Antonio drivers are truly remarkable in their level of stupidity.
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Old 07-27-2013, 08:41 AM   #30
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So sad and preventable

Breaks my heart to think about that poor mother having to watch the death of her so. It also pisses me off because this incident and those like it are so preventable. I'm a resident of Colorado and I recently read that an estimated 70% of those riding around today do not have their motorcycle Endorsement. I wonder if that means they also are uninsured?
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