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Old 07-28-2013, 01:27 PM   #31
SilkMoneyLove
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Ok

Sad situation. Is it possible the guy had a learners permit but not a license?

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Originally Posted by doxiedog View Post
I pulled into the ducati shop on my sv650.
The dealer was showing a kid,this is the clutch,and this is the throttle
On a duc xyz superbike!.
I pulled right back out of there,before the show started.
I recently picked up a bike from the Duc shop. The sales guy said "I know you know how to ride since you just traded in a bike, but let me go over the controls of this bike.." I said "OK" since it takes 30 seconds and the guy can honestly say he went over the controls with me, should I eat it right in front of the shop.

So, you may have witnessed a situation like mine...OR you witnessed a situation that a noob was about to be in over their head.

You did the right thing listening to that inner voice and getting out of there. I never stick around if my spidey sense starts tingling.
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Old 07-29-2013, 07:21 AM   #32
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There is a lot to be said for graduated training for bikes.
Start out on a low power to weight ratio, have to take training courses with an approved instructor etc before you get a license to ride a big HP bike.
Of course dealers may not like this kind of process as it slows the whole sales process down.
On the plus side you might have repeat business not just a once off sale.
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Old 07-29-2013, 07:40 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Colotrooper View Post
Breaks my heart to think about that poor mother having to watch the death of her so. It also pisses me off because this incident and those like it are so preventable. I'm a resident of Colorado and I recently read that an estimated 70% of those riding around today do not have their motorcycle Endorsement. I wonder if that means they also are uninsured?
The person in the best position to prevent this tragedy was the purchaser/rider. Unfortunately, he didn't chose wisely.
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:50 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by FirstPath View Post
The story states he didn't have a motorcycle license (endorsement). OK... then the dealership should say (insisted) "you're not riding it home". By law, don't you need an endorsement to operate a motorcycle on a public street anyway?

Yep, he's a big boy and can make his own choices and I am NOT blaming the dealership. It's just incredibly stupid by both parties involved and now someone is dead.
Here the dealer can't/won't let you ride away without proof of insurance. Insurance co will require license and in most cases, unless you want to pay pay pay, you'll need to have a motorcycle safety course, particularly for provinces with graduated license systems. Still doesn't mean that newly licensed riders are not killing themselves on heavy or high power machines, just have to jump a few more hoops before getting their Darwin award. Does bring up the 205 discussion on whether new riders should be restricted to lower cc bikes.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:05 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Colotrooper View Post
Breaks my heart to think about that poor mother having to watch the death of her so. It also pisses me off because this incident and those like it are so preventable. I'm a resident of Colorado and I recently read that an estimated 70% of those riding around today do not have their motorcycle Endorsement. I wonder if that means they also are uninsured?

I can't imagine an insurance company paying a claim if the rider is not licensed to operate the vehicle in the first place so yes, they are uninsured...
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:16 AM   #36
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Most of us, I'm pretty sure, learned in a graduated way.

Starting off on small dirtbikes, moving up to bigger ones as our skills improved, eventually getting that first streetbike of a relatively small displacement (100 to 400 cc), riding that around until we wanted something a bit bigger (450 to 750cc), then graduating up to the big leagues (750cc on up).

This is how I and most of my friends learned, over a period of several years. We have all survived riding bikes until this point.

I think in some other countries they follow a similar system with licensing. I wonder if we shouldn't embrace something like that here, based on age, riding courses and testing?

Some people shouldn't even be in a car, much less on a bike.
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:27 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by doc4216 View Post
My buddy just bought a brand new victory judge and the dealer wouldn't let him drive it off the lot because he didn't have his endorsement.
Just how do they do that, it's his bike. How can they sell it to him and then not "let" him have his own property?
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Old 07-29-2013, 05:35 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by FirstPath View Post
I like your thinking... but, you couldn't ride it home on the street if you wanted to....
Sure you could, but it wouldn't be legal. And if you did, would that be the dealer's fault?
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:59 PM   #39
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Hard to imagine

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Originally Posted by woodnbow View Post
I can't imagine an insurance company paying a claim if the rider is not licensed to operate the vehicle in the first place so yes, they are uninsured...
This is hard to even comprehend. Seven out of ten riders are either unlicensed and/or uninsured. Amazing.
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:33 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heyload View Post
Most of us, I'm pretty sure, learned in a graduated way.

Starting off on small dirtbikes, moving up to bigger ones as our skills improved, eventually getting that first streetbike of a relatively small displacement (100 to 400 cc), riding that around until we wanted something a bit bigger (450 to 750cc), then graduating up to the big leagues (750cc on up).

This is how I and most of my friends learned, over a period of several years. We have all survived riding bikes until this point.

I think in some other countries they follow a similar system with licensing. I wonder if we shouldn't embrace something like that here, based on age, riding courses and testing?

Some people shouldn't even be in a car, much less on a bike.
This is the path I followed as well, I think there is a lot of merit in learning offroad where there aren't other road users to worry about and the landings are generally softer.
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Old 07-30-2013, 06:10 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Heyload View Post

I think in some other countries they follow a similar system with licensing. I wonder if we shouldn't embrace something like that here, based on age, riding courses and testing?
We have a system like that in Germany - tiered licensing (50 hp only for the first two years), manadatory hours spent in the driving school classroom, a very thorough traffic rules theroretical test, another shorter motorcycle specific theoretical test, ten mandatory riding lessons (night, Autobahn, overland) with your instructor following you on his own bike or in a car, also practicing hard braking and swerving round cones on a parking lot and a final test by an independent tester ... it is thorough but the downside is of course the cost. A motorcycle license costs you easily 2000$ or more. As a result a big problem over here is that younger people don't take up motorcycling any more. It has become somewhat unhip, but also because it has become near unaffordable. The average rider age here is somewhere north of 50, IIRC:
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:07 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by foxtrapper View Post
Every fatal accident happened on a vehicle purchased from some dealership. The only effective way to make sure no car (or motorcycle) sold from a dealership isn't involved in a fatality is to stop selling any.

There is always "something" that can be done, be it in the name of safety or think of the children. Invariably, it involves reducing personal freedoms. Your freedom to go out and buy a so-called crazy fast bike, your freedom to ride such a bike wearing whatever safety gear you feel is right for you, your freedom to even buy a bike at all (many want them completely outlawed, in the name of safety).

Are you really comfortable selling off freedom for safety?
Well said
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:41 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by foxtrapper View Post
Are you really comfortable selling off freedom for safety?
I would gladly sacrifice my tiered licence system if I could be sure my government wasn't snooping on everything I write on the internet or say on a phone in exchange. Or your government either ...
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:03 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colotrooper View Post
This is hard to even comprehend. Seven out of ten riders are either unlicensed and/or uninsured. Amazing.
Is there a link or anything to document this claim? Did I miss something?
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Old 07-30-2013, 12:07 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhpr262 View Post
We have a system like that in Germany - tiered licensing (50 hp only for the first two years), manadatory hours spent in the driving school classroom, a very thorough traffic rules theroretical test, another shorter motorcycle specific theoretical test, ten mandatory riding lessons (night, Autobahn, overland) with your instructor following you on his own bike or in a car, also practicing hard braking and swerving round cones on a parking lot and a final test by an independent tester ... it is thorough but the downside is of course the cost. A motorcycle license costs you easily 2000$ or more. As a result a big problem over here is that younger people don't take up motorcycling any more. It has become somewhat unhip, but also because it has become near unaffordable. The average rider age here is somewhere north of 50, IIRC:
I would love to see something like this in the states. For ALL drivers. 2, 4 or 18 wheels. The requirements for getting a license here are an absolute joke. And the penalties for screwing up even more of a joke.
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