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Old 08-02-2013, 01:08 PM   #31
klaviator
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Anyone who has ridden a Zuma 125 knows it has almost no legroom (that may be the reason why someone came up with aftermarket highway pegs for it) but using them cuts 5 mph off top speed. The Vino 125 has quite a bit more leg room.

But I find the "stretch out" thing to be odd. I ride a cruiser motorcycle so I can sit upright and stretch my legs out with the forward pegs. The bars are tall enough and come back far enough that you can reach them easily without having to lean forward. Yet this is what most motorcycle riders don't want. They want the pegs to be way back, and the bars to be about the same height as the seat, specifically so they can put most of their upper body weight on the bars, and have their legs all scrunched up underneath them. I never understood why everybody wants such an uncomfortable riding position, but they do. The new Honda CTX700 got tons of complaints because it has a cruiser like riding position, without looking like a cruiser. Will be interesting to see how well it sells.
Look around Jerry, cruisers outsell sportbikes by a wide margin in the USA.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:01 PM   #32
CaseyJones
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What's the future? It all depends. The things are a pleasure; they save gas; if set up right there's plenty of room even for big riders.

Somehow they're not catching on. The Chinese scooter is grabbing market; I see them everywhere (gawd help them!) but the maxis? I'm in a town of 30,000 and I think I have the only Burgman 650 out here.

I thought the B650 was overkill; but truth is, in a rural area, you NEED a big machine. You don't go far without needing freeway speed; and even through town there's limited-access highways. So...it's ideal. Only downside is the gas mileage; 48-50; and that's only a downside when compared to a hybrid car or a small scooter. It's better than many motorcycles.

So...it should be good; but it doesn't seem to becoming so.
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:35 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
Look around Jerry, cruisers outsell sportbikes by a wide margin in the USA.

In the real world that's true. But if you don't want to catch hell, don't bring that up in Road Warriors. They hate cruisers. They don't like the new CTX either, because of the cruiser riding position.
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Old 08-04-2013, 03:42 AM   #34
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What's the future? It all depends. The things are a pleasure; they save gas; if set up right there's plenty of room even for big riders.

Somehow they're not catching on. The Chinese scooter is grabbing market; I see them everywhere (gawd help them!) but the maxis? I'm in a town of 30,000 and I think I have the only Burgman 650 out here.

I thought the B650 was overkill; but truth is, in a rural area, you NEED a big machine. You don't go far without needing freeway speed; and even through town there's limited-access highways. So...it's ideal. Only downside is the gas mileage; 48-50; and that's only a downside when compared to a hybrid car or a small scooter. It's better than many motorcycles.

So...it should be good; but it doesn't seem to becoming so.

9 out of 10 scooters around here are also Chinese. But there is a likely reason for that. $$$. There is a guy who works at a local convenience store who has been riding one for over a year and a half, and it is still going. Right now I'm looking at 300cc scooters. They are big enough to do freeway speeds, and still small enough to ride around town with ease. A Burg 650 is out of the question for me. I had more problems handling one of those in a parking lot than my 1500 Goldwing. To big, to wide, and to heavy. And Kymco and SYM have great deals on 300cc scooters.
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:43 AM   #35
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I think the future is bright for scooters although I am not so sure if the bigger Maxi-scoots will ever be a big part of the market. I'll define those as 400cc and above. I do think the 250 to 300cc market will boom in a few years.

Moving forward we are going to see increased urbanization. That means less parking and increased traffic. Gas prices will continue to increase and, in the USA at least, so will things like student debt and a sluggish economy will continue to put pressure on the markets. Others have all ready mentioned the ease of operation, storage, weather protection and ease of riding.

In other words, a scooter is a cheap and excellent means of transport. While we may never see streets clogged with scooters like many Asian cities are, I can see a day where maybe 1 out of ever 500 vehicles on the road is a scooter.

http://www.2smallerwheels.blogspot.c...oter.html:clap
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:28 AM   #36
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I almost never see Chinese scooters around here. I don't think anyone sells them around here. More than anything else, this a Harley town. Scooters in general don't sell that well around here as all the dealers tell me. As for the scooters I do see around town, I probably see more maxi scooters than I do smaller ones.

Huntsville is actually a great town for getting around on a small to midsize scooter. I'm not sure why scooters haven't caught on here but perhaps the lack of effective marketing on the part of the dealers is part of the reason.
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:46 PM   #37
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9 out of 10 scooters around here are also Chinese. But there is a likely reason for that. $$$. There is a guy who works at a local convenience store who has been riding one for over a year and a half, and it is still going. Right now I'm looking at 300cc scooters. They are big enough to do freeway speeds, and still small enough to ride around town with ease. A Burg 650 is out of the question for me. I had more problems handling one of those in a parking lot than my 1500 Goldwing. To big, to wide, and to heavy. And Kymco and SYM have great deals on 300cc scooters.
The most expensive thing in the world...is cheap junk.

Especially when you buy it with the idea it will hold up for a time. My two chunks...Chinese junks...were a waste. One blew the motor while under warranty; and then spent NINE MONTHS waiting for parts. Then, back home once more, I hit a deer with it. Broken panels I cannot replace. I'm trying to rig the frame to ride without the tupperware.

The other, I sold for 60 percent of what I paid for it. I want NOTHING more to do with Chinese trash - there's no quality and no support.

When the Chinese learn what they have to do to keep their stuff running and service it in this country when it brakes...I'll buy. Not until.
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:03 PM   #38
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I see the maxi scooter segment as ripe for two major developments. First is a push to create a true mid-sized touring alternative to the Goldwings and K1600GTs. You'll see serious luggage space with integrated saddlebags along with the under seat and topcase storage. Larger fuel tanks, standard cruise control and audio systems will also be part of the package. Possibly the most important addition to these new tourers will be an electronic overdrive to lower the RPMs at highway speeds to improve fuel milage. One unnecessary change will be the push to engines of 750cc to get past the American mindset that "real" big boy bike has to have at least a 3/4 liter engine.

The second push will be to reduce weight and improve the nimbleness of the larger 4-600cc commuter scooters. Bigger wheels, centralized mass, and monocoque chassis will combine to make the big scooters handle like current 250s. This may sound far out but two factors are converging to make scooters more acceptable. The riding public is getting older and as joints stiffen, stepping through becomes preferable to swinging over. Automatic transmissions give weakened left wrists a break in around town conditions. Also, many folks coming back into the riding scene have been out for decades as they raised families. As such, they aren't invested in the current motorcycle vs scooter paradigm. They are children of the tech revolution and are attracted to the latest and greatest tech toys. The question is, which manufacturer will be the first to develop the scooter equivalent of the original iPhone?
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:51 PM   #39
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I live in a college town. About 3-4 years ago, it became "cool" (or at least not uber-dorky) to ride a scoot. We went from <200 scoots registered on campus to over 2,500 in that time. This year I'll bet that runs up over 3,000. The school has about 25,000 students.

Overwhelmingly "disposable" Chinese ruled 3 yrs ago, but experience has taught our market that you gotta spend more. SYMs are getting pretty common now, as are Kymco and the other "mainstream" brands. We have really steep hills here, and most now are 125cc and up, but still too many overloaded 50cc's around running 15mph up hills. That stretched-naked Big Ruckus clone (Mad Dog 50cc) popped up big time this summer.

I wonder what these "kids" will do after college? They'll drive the future market more than old farts like me. I ride 2 wheels every day to campus. It is interesting that when I park my Burg 650 among them, I get no comments. Ever. If I park my Harley or my WR250 there, I get questions or comments more than twice a week. I love my Burg, but it clearly is not considered cool by our students. I don't see them adding to the maxi (as it is today) market.
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:08 PM   #40
CaseyJones
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Originally Posted by Valentino Magoo View Post
I live in a college town. About 3-4 years ago, it became "cool" (or at least not uber-dorky) to ride a scoot. We went from <200 scoots registered on campus to over 2,500 in that time. This year I'll bet that runs up over 3,000. The school has about 25,000 students.

Overwhelmingly "disposable" Chinese ruled 3 yrs ago, but experience has taught our market that you gotta spend more. SYMs are getting pretty common now, as are Kymco and the other "mainstream" brands. We have really steep hills here, and most now are 125cc and up, but still too many overloaded 50cc's around running 15mph up hills. That stretched-naked Big Ruckus clone (Mad Dog 50cc) popped up big time this summer.

I wonder what these "kids" will do after college? They'll drive the future market more than old farts like me. I ride 2 wheels every day to campus. It is interesting that when I park my Burg 650 among them, I get no comments. Ever. If I park my Harley or my WR250 there, I get questions or comments more than twice a week. I love my Burg, but it clearly is not considered cool by our students. I don't see them adding to the maxi (as it is today) market.
Actually, the college market is perfect for the Chinese crapola.

Disposable. No need even to bring it home. Sell it for a few bucks; or just abandon it. And if it gets stolen, 'tain't no big thang...

And a college kid, IN college...can be flexible about arrivals in a way few others can. If the thing breaks en route...it's a lotta cursing and a discarded scoot on the side of the road. Nothing more.
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:39 PM   #41
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Actually, the college market is perfect for the Chinese crapola.

Disposable.
I thought that's what I said. But, it has been interesting to watch the market change. There's still plenty if the crap, but % is declining. The businesses that popped up to repair the crap were quickly overwhelmed, and couldn't fix most due to difficulty in getting parts for the junks, and lack of qualified mechanics for what they could afford to charge a customer.
They are using these to get to class, often with their girls on the back, so they either quit scoots or spend more $ after missing class (or more importantly to them, missing a party, a date or being embarrassed in front of their honey).
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:52 PM   #42
CaseyJones
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I thought that's what I said.
Sorry, missed your post. Guess I didn't refresh the page.
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:52 PM   #43
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I think we are going to see a lot of convergance between maxi scoots and standard bikes. Honda may not have hit it perfectly with the 700 series, but expect to see a lot more of that concept about, one bike, one frame, multiple models. The economics just make too much sense, they just have to fine tune the delivery.
DCT (and competitors versions which I am sure will be on the way once \ if it proves popular) will bridge the gap even more. Pretty much any scooter has redneck cruise control if you have some time and a rubber washer, but if they shave another 1000 or so off the 700 'scooter' from Honda it will take a chunk out of the burgman \ silverwing \ majesty market.
Lets face it, we all want to pay 1980's prices without inflation :) Honda is applying car principals to bikes, using a common platform. This will help pricing. Next we will see the common engine come in a couple of different tunings like with European cars. You will still get your cruisers \ standards \ street bikes \ superbikes etc, I just expect them to have a lot more parts in common, at least from the Japanese bikes.
I think the lower capacity scooter market will see more Taiwanese brands challenging the dominant Japanese marques as they themselves face challenges from Chinese brands like CF Moto who are beginning to improve their reputation, just like the Japanese and Taiwanese brands did previously.
All this is just my thoughts (not deeply held convictions) so feel free to tear them apart :) I could be very wrong. I think the future is going to be a good time to be a biker. We will keep lots of choice, features will improve, reliability will stay good and pricing should resist some inflation. Maxi scooters especially will benefit.
Still want a tiger explorer 1200 though.
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We have the same trouble here. What I don't understand is If it's called tourist season, why can't I shoot them
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:47 PM   #44
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Does the 250cc scoot count as "Maxi"?

Howdy,

For this 275 lb. urban commuter, the 250cc segment seems to achieve the desired balance between displacement, mpg, weight, top speed and cost. Pity none are available in my area! Actually, Honda's Forza is on the way..
If a scoot can't get 60 mpg on a bad day, I don't really see the point in owning it. YMMV and MHO.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:16 AM   #45
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Howdy,

For this 275 lb. urban commuter, the 250cc segment seems to achieve the desired balance between displacement, mpg, weight, top speed and cost. Pity none are available in my area! Actually, Honda's Forza is on the way..
If a scoot can't get 60 mpg on a bad day, I don't really see the point in owning it. YMMV and MHO.
As the owner of two Reflexes, I would say 'no', they do not. It would seem that the consensus is 400cc+ are considered "maxi-scooters". For your size/weight, I would say a Forza would be the right tool for the job, perhaps even a Majesty or Burg4 (no offense). Reflexes, in Chicago-land, seem to demand a premium regardless of condition. It's no surprise there aren't any 250cc scoots available around you, they're pretty popular because 250cc, IMO, is the perfect commuter motor (size-wise). They can go freeway speeds, get good fuel economy (I get 65-70 mpg) and are relatively light weight (but not light).
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