ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Battle scooters
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-25-2013, 05:49 PM   #91
longhaul747 OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by blugg1 View Post
The screws are sealed and you are right, a dealer is not supposed to do it; however, someone versed in modifications can do it easily. And probably reset the needle also.

Is your Typhoon fuel injected by any chance? If so, that would account for the smooth starting and running vs. the gas-starved Sport City.
I am pretty sure its carbureted but I decided to research and see if they come with fuel injected in other markets? From what I can tell the Typhoon 125 only comes carbureted and sold this way in all countries.

Its possible the Typhoon has a different and possibly better carburetor but not sure. It could even be the spark plug. Some Piaggio products come with an NGK plug and run pretty good but some come with a Champion and they sometimes don't run as good. Just a shot in the dark but it might be worth investigating to see what plug they each have installed. If they are different then change them both to NGK just so that part if the equation is out of the way.
longhaul747 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2013, 06:28 PM   #92
longhaul747 OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 543
Yesterday and today I changed the final drive oil in both the Agility 125 and the Typhoon 125. The Agility was super easy but the Typhoon 125 was slightly less easy. I am glad I changed both as when I was draining both the oil was gray and had a lot of grit in it. Nothing out of the ordinary just typical gunk from when the gears first mesh in.

The Agility 125 was a simply 12MM socket and I removed the drain bolt and the fill bolt. Interestingly only the drain bolt had a crush washer. I guess Kymco has to save money everywhere you can. In reality its probably not needed because the oil on these is not filled up to the fill bolt. You simply drain and replace with 6.7 oz. Hard to get the exact amount without a mechanics syringe. I actually went to O'Rielly's Auto Parts and they apparently did not have one so I had to guess it. I think I gave it one extra squeeze and put in a little over 7 oz but I don't think it will cause any issues. Some fill until it seeps out of the fill bolt without issue. I used Pro Honda 80W-90 in the Agility.

On the Typhoon 125 I had to pick up a long 12" 1/4" drive extension so I can get to the drain plug through the wheel. The hex bolt is 6MM in size. Luckily the extension worked rather well and I was easily able to remove the drain bolt. It was a bit tricky getting my drain bucket under the drain plug and before I could a good amount of oil spilled on the wheel and on to the ground but I was able to capture most of the oil coming out. I was not sure on capacity but I just added the same amount that came out and verified it by the dip stick on the final drive. I used Motul 75W-90 Synthetic in the Typhoon.

After changing it in the Typhoon I took it for a test run. After it was good and warm and making sure I am not leaking oil from anywhere I got a run with a 45 MPH speed limit but everyone does about 60 MPH on. It took a bit of time but I managed to reach a speed of 64 MPH before running out of run. I think I had enough power for another few miles per hour. Pretty respectable top speed run for a 125 that is not even fully broken in yet. Keep in my though that it appears that the speedo is grossly optimistic. Perhaps as much as 10%!
longhaul747 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 06:04 PM   #93
longhaul747 OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 543
Today I got a read on fuel economy for the Typhoon 125. Not really good I am afraid at 60 MPG.

Its possible the dealer fill was not actually completely full and that is why its so low. It looked full but during my fill up it kept the same level in the tank for at least another 1/4 of a gallon before it finely went to the bottom of the filler neck. Also in every bike I have ever owned the first tank is usually not the best and things can improve dramatically.

Hopefully this is the case but I am not really sure. Its air cooled and carbureted for starters and it seems to be high strong with a resident rpm that is perhaps a 2,000 or more rpm's higher then many other scoots out there. Last but not least the scooter is just so fun to ride you end up pushing it harder then normal.

Still 60 MPG is pretty bad for a 125 so I expect it to improve perhaps dramatically over the next few tanks. It probably did not help it was a dog the first 40 miles as well.

I hope tomorrow I will have time to fill up the SportCity 125 and see how it compares. However its looking like its perhaps slightly worse. Of coarse again it was a dog when brand spanking new and I don't think it was completely full.

Also hope to fill up the Agility 125. I can tell you this scooter appears to be doing very well economy wise. I have traveled 133 km and its slightly below a half tank on the gauge. I know the last half goes fast but its only a 1.3 gallon tank I believe.

Today I did run the SportCity 125. Its really looking like I will have to take into the shop for some carb adjustments. The bloody thing died on me at a traffic light and would not restart. This happened at the intersection by Barnes and Noble in Lynnwood. I had to push it off the street and after 4 or 5 attempts to get it started it would not fire and stay running. So I parked it and went in and read some books and tried again 30 minutes later and it fired right up and ran fine the rest of the day. So go figure!

When I got back home I was at 70 miles on the clock so I dumped the factory fill. It was dark in color and had some glitter when draining the filter but otherwise looked fine. Tomorrow or Sunday I will do the final drive and be done with that stuff on all the new bikes. Next service will be the dealers 600 mile service however on the 125's they don't get a valve adjustment so I may just change the oil myself. All the dealers do is change the oil and charge you a fortune for it. If the valves need to be checked I will have them do it.
longhaul747 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2013, 03:25 PM   #94
longhaul747 OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 543
Fueled up the Agility 125 and the SportCity 125 today. For the SportCity 125 I got a measly 57 MPG. For the record though I don't think the selling dealer topped it off. The gas gauge was on full for a little while but seemed to move down faster then the Typhoon. As I already said I expect both the SportCity 125 and the Typhoon 125 to improve. The question is by how much?

For the Agility 125 I did a lot better. Managed to pull off 90 MPG on the dealer fill and this included some mild wrenching and some break in procedures. I expect it to also improve as it gets some miles on it as long as I stay off the throttle of coarse. I am not expecting a major improvement because it turned out so well already but maybe 92 to 95 MPG is doable. Not bad for an air cooled and carbureted old school engine. So much for technology improving things!

BTW, you gotta watch the gas gauge on the Agility. I left home this morning at about a 1/4 tank of gas just into the white zone on the gauge. I traveled 8 miles on an errand and it went from 1/4 tank down into the red. I thought for sure I can make it another 10 miles to the Woodinville Costco for one of them $1.50 Hot Dog's and some fuel but I made it only about 6 miles to Bothell. In that short period of time the gauge was pegged deep into the red empty zone. I noticed the engine started to miss a bit and at that point I decided to turn off and get some fuel at the Chevron in Bothell. When I popped the gas cap off the tank was completely empty. Only the bottom of the tank was wet. I am pretty sure I was running on what was left in the float bowl. Could I have made it to Woodinville. Perhaps on a wing and a prayer but I think the traffic in downtown Woodinville would have done me in. At least I would have several gas stations I could easily push it to.

Anyways lesson learned on the Agility is its smart to get fuel as soon as the gauge reaches the red zone. If I had one complaint about the Agility a slightly larger tank would be nice but if I wanted to carry extra fuel I do have an MSR Fuel Bottle available for those purposes. Maybe next time I will actually see how far it will go compared to when I chickened out today.
longhaul747 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 09:19 AM   #95
brianwheelies
Iron toocus
 
brianwheelies's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Oddometer: 3,230
The Motorcycle.com review of the Typhoon stated poor mileage as well.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohninVT View Post
Adding a turbo or supercharger doesn't automatically turn an engine into a Palestinian alarm clock.
brianwheelies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 05:19 PM   #96
longhaul747 OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianwheelies View Post
The Motorcycle.com review of the Typhoon stated poor mileage as well.
Yeah I read that as well so the low economy figures are not surprising. My theory is the engine seems tuned to be high strung so it seems like it turns over at a much higher RPM then the Zuma 125, PCX 125 or Agility 125. In fact it seems the motor spends 80% of the time at near maximum speed and its the CVT doing all the work. I don't notice a great deal of difference in how fast the motor is running regardless of speed. Because of this it burns a surprising amount of fuel.

I still expect things to improve but I bet if I can reach 70 MPG that will be about as good as it gets. This is really no better then most 250cc to 300cc scooters but obviously still way better then just about any car.

If Piaggio really wanted to improve fuel economy the first thing they would do is tune the motor for more low end torque so it does not have to spin so fast. 2nd thing they can do is add 2 more valves or at least 1 more like the new Piaggio 3V engine. Last but not least they can add fuel injection and at this point it will probably be at least the mid 80's MPG wise. However all this stuff cost money to engineer and the Typhoon does come in at a certain price point and the current engine is very proven. Supposedly the Leader engines are very solid design. Sometimes if its not broken don't fix it.
longhaul747 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 07:32 PM   #97
blugg1
Gnarly Adventurer
 
blugg1's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Bisbee, AZ
Oddometer: 327
Even my made in Taiwan SYM HD 200 EVO has four valves so you wouldn't expect Piaggio to be behind the curve.

Regarding high rpm's, is there a possibility there's a malfunction of some sort in the drivetrain causing slippage? You said the motor sounds about the same regardless of the speed and that got me to wondering.

Unless they're all like that. In which case you wonder about the wisdom of owning one.
__________________
2013 TU250x, 2012 SYM HD200 EVO
blugg1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 08:20 PM   #98
longhaul747 OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by blugg1 View Post
Even my made in Taiwan SYM HD 200 EVO has four valves so you wouldn't expect Piaggio to be behind the curve.

Regarding high rpm's, is there a possibility there's a malfunction of some sort in the drivetrain causing slippage? You said the motor sounds about the same regardless of the speed and that got me to wondering.

Unless they're all like that. In which case you wonder about the wisdom of owning one.
The Piaggio group has upped the anti on its 50cc engines as most if not all of them are 4 valves now. However they have not done much to the larger motors (Yet). A few water cooled versions and the new 3V 150cc engine is about the most they have done for a while now.

I kind of doubt anything is really wrong with the drivetrain. I think its just how Piaggio designed it. The behavior actually seems fairly typical with CVT scooters or anything with a CVT transmission. The engine will run in its sweet spot pretty continuously and its the CVT transmission that does all the work. You do notice slightly higher rpm's when WOT at or near maximum speed and rpm's do decrease at slower speeds and as you stop. However in the 30-50 MPH range it seems the motor is running a pretty steady speed plus or minus 500 or so RPM's. I also notice the exact same behavior on the SportCity 125. Same Leader engine and drivetrain.

In Hawaii a few years ago I had a Dodge Caliber with a CVT transmission and it ran just like a scooter. Actually drove me nuts but I did get used to it. The engine spent most of the time at about 3,200 rpm's give or take a few hundred and you never felt it shift.

Some scooters seem to have more variance and use the motor a little more. My PCX and Elite 110 do. I am pretty sure my SH150i does as well. Come to think of it so does the Silverwing. However my Reflex and my Majesty run pretty much the same as the Piaggio's do. Its just however its designed to run.

The scooter market is really heating up especially in Europe. A lot of advanced tech in the latest models that really help squeeze every ounce of efficiency out of them. I think Piaggio will have to up the anti to remain competitive and I bet they will. They have a lot of solid stuff right now that is proven but definitely not the most efficient out there.
longhaul747 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 08:48 PM   #99
blugg1
Gnarly Adventurer
 
blugg1's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Bisbee, AZ
Oddometer: 327
Thank you for all the information. You certainly know much more about various scooters, some of which I never heard of before joining this forum, plus I just bought my first scooter in ages last March. I think I need to go up to Tucson and take some test rides on a variety of scooters in order to have some standards of comparison.

Does Piaggio own Vespa and do they now also own Ducati?
__________________
2013 TU250x, 2012 SYM HD200 EVO
blugg1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2013, 10:14 PM   #100
brianwheelies
Iron toocus
 
brianwheelies's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Oddometer: 3,230
You could put some heavier sliders or rollers in to tone down the revs some. Once the belt breaks in it should be less frenetic.

You need to put a few hundred miles on before doing a proper write up on efficiency.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohninVT View Post
Adding a turbo or supercharger doesn't automatically turn an engine into a Palestinian alarm clock.
brianwheelies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 01:59 AM   #101
klaviator
Beastly Adventurer
 
klaviator's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Oddometer: 5,635
Quote:
Originally Posted by blugg1 View Post

Does Piaggio own Vespa and do they now also own Ducati?
I believe Piaggio owns Vespa, Aprilia, MV Augusta, and Moto Guzzi.
__________________
I ride, Therefore I Am.



klaviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 09:36 AM   #102
longhaul747 OP
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Location: Bothell, WA
Oddometer: 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianwheelies View Post
You could put some heavier sliders or rollers in to tone down the revs some. Once the belt breaks in it should be less frenetic.

You need to put a few hundred miles on before doing a proper write up on efficiency.
Exactly this is why I am thinking the economy will improve plus its impossible to say just how full the dealer got it. Every machine I have ever owned that first tank kind of sucked because everything is brand new and stiff.

I did not think about changing the sliders but this could help a bit. It just depends on what the actual torque curve is. For maximum reliability I usually don't mess with things much anymore but rollers are pretty benign and safe to do. I will have to research and see what mods are available. I am sure they have different weight sliders or rollers available. This particular engine is used in dozens of scooter models from the Piaggio Group.
longhaul747 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 01:40 PM   #103
Motovista
Parts is Parts
 
Motovista's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Oddometer: 507
Quote:
Originally Posted by longhaul747 View Post

This could all be easily avoided if they simply had it shipped direct from Piaggio to the dealer and the dealer itself does the setup. Probably cheaper as well. Not sure why most of the dealers do it this way. It seems counter productive and more costly to the consumer and the dealer. Its like most dealers refuse to use its own shop for uncrating and assembly. I am guessing the warehouse down south charges less for the same work the shop at the dealer charges the sales department for. Still kind of silly because they tell me they still have to go through them to make sure they did everything right. If I owned a dealer at that point I would just say "heck with it we will do the assembly as well". I am sure this would be obvious an a cost analysis but it highlights just how most dealers are run! Being mom and pop operations they will go with what is easier and not exactly what is cheaper. .
A warehouse and setup company is usually a lot cheaper than for a dealer to warehouse and setup his own units. The guy setting them up makes a lot less than the Technicians in the shop, they do it faster, and uncrating and assembling bikes is not a very difficult job. Also, most dealers don't have a warehouse to inventory all their bikes, nor floor space to put everything on it they ordered, because many companies require them to order a year's worth of bikes at a time, and they receive massive shipments of bikes all at once. A dealer that sells 1200 bikes a year might have 600 in inventory and space on his floor for 50 or so. They need a forklift to unload them, and a place to warehouse them until they set them up for the floor. In addition, it is easier to do dealer trades with other dealers if everyone has their stuff in a central location and you can check what other dealers have still in the crate instead of on the floor and perhaps banged up. What the dealer's shop does is called the Pre-Delivery inspection, and this is different than the set-up. It does require a higher level skill set than uncrating bikes and putting them together. Also, most dealers aren't set up to handle disposing of the crates the bikes come in.

You do know you can get a 200cc big bore kit for that typhoon, I hope.
__________________
Discount OEM, replacement and performance parts for vespa, honda, bmw, yamaha, suzuki, genuine, kymco, piaggio, aprilia, SYM, tgb, tomos and other scooters at http://www.scooterpartsco.com
GT200, GT200, ET2, Italjet Velocifero, Italjet Torpedo, Eton Beamer 3, Genuine Buddy Pamplona 150, Kymco Vitality 50, Honda Elite 50

Motovista screwed with this post 09-02-2013 at 01:49 PM
Motovista is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 04:30 PM   #104
brianwheelies
Iron toocus
 
brianwheelies's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Oddometer: 3,230
I believe that is for the 2 stroke.(the 189 or 192cc kit)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohninVT View Post
Adding a turbo or supercharger doesn't automatically turn an engine into a Palestinian alarm clock.
brianwheelies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2013, 08:21 PM   #105
petrol42
Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Oddometer: 37
I think the reason for the high strung nature of your Typhoon that you mention is due to it's really short stroke.

If the specs are to be trusted, the Piaggio website claims that the Typhoon has a 2.2 inch bore with 1.1 inch stroke. The short stroke would mean that the engine spins really high and the Horsepower is made really high up in the RPM range although Midrange torque on these types of motors are usually really low. You really have to keep short stroke motors up in the high RPM range to get any power out of them.

Your Fly 150 on the other hand has a bore of 2.28 inches and a stroke of 2.3 inch which would make it a square engine. These types of engines give you a balance of mid range torque and relatively good power in the upper RPM range but don't spin as high as short stroke motor would and not as exciting to ride.

The Agility has a 52.4 mm bore with a 57.8 mm stroke. Long stroke motors typically make their power down low but since this motor is really small to begin with, I think it still spins as high as your Fly 150 does.

Judging by your review of all your scooters, I think its safe to assume that the engine types I described fit your scooter's profiles.
petrol42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014